[House Hearing, 115 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
H.R. 815; H.R. 3018; H.R. 3634; H.R. 3949; H.R. 3965; A Draft Bill
Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United States Code, To Eliminate The
Applicability Of Certain Provisions Of The Administrative Procedure Act
To Housing And Business Loan Programs Of The Department Of Veterans
Affairs''; And A Draft Bill Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United
States Code, To Make Certain Improvements To The Use Of Educational
Assistance Provided By The Department Of Veterans Affairs For Flight
Training Programs''
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 11, 2017
__________
Serial No. 115-33
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
_________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
31-341 WASHINGTON : 2018
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
DAVID P. ROE, Tennessee, Chairman
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida, Vice- TIM WALZ, Minnesota, Ranking
Chairman Member
MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado MARK TAKANO, California
BRAD R. WENSTRUP, Ohio JULIA BROWNLEY, California
AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, American ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire
Samoa BETO O'ROURKE, Texas
MIKE BOST, Illinois KATHLEEN RICE, New York
BRUCE POLIQUIN, Maine J. LUIS CORREA, California
NEAL DUNN, Florida KILILI SABLAN, Northern Mariana
JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas Islands
JOHN RUTHERFORD, Florida ELIZABETH ESTY, Connecticut
CLAY HIGGINS, Louisiana SCOTT PETERS, California
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan
JIM BANKS, Indiana
JENNIFFER GONZALEZ-COLON, Puerto
Rico
Jon Towers, Staff Director
Ray Kelley, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas, Chairman
GUS BILIRAKIS, Florida BETO O'ROURKE, Texas, Ranking
BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio Member
JOHN RUTHERFORD, Florida MARK TAKANO, California
JIM BANKS, Indiana LUIS CORREA, California
KATHLEEN RICE, New York
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
----------
Wednesday, October 11, 2017
Page
H.R. 815; H.R. 3018; H.R. 3634; H.R. 3949; H.R. 3965; A Draft
Bill Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United States Code, To
Eliminate The Applicability Of Certain Provisions Of The
Administrative Procedure Act To Housing And Business Loan
Programs Of The Department Of Veterans Affairs''; And A Draft
Bill Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United States Code, To Make
Certain Improvements To The Use Of Educational Assistance
Provided By The Department Of Veterans Affairs For Flight
Training Programs''............................................ 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Honorable Jodey Arrington, Chairman.............................. 1
Honorable Beto O'Rourke, Ranking Member.......................... 2
WITNESSES
Honorable John H. Rutherford, U.S. House of Representatives, (FL-
04)............................................................ 3
Prepared Statement........................................... 27
Honorable James A. Himes, U.S. House of Representatives, (CT-04). 4
Prepared Statement........................................... 27
Honorable Martha McSally, U.S. House of Representatives, (AZ-02). 5
Prepared Statement........................................... 28
Honorable Ro Khanna, U.S.House of Representatives, (CA-17)....... 7
Prepared Statement........................................... 29
MG Robert M. Worley II USAF (Ret.), Director, Education Service,
Veterans Benefit Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans
Affairs........................................................ 9
Prepared Statement........................................... 30
Accompanied by:
Mr. Jeffrey London, Director, Loan Guaranty Service, Veterans
Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans
Affairs
Mr. John Kamin, Assistant Director, Veteran Employment and
Education, The American Legion................................. 10
Prepared Statement........................................... 32
Mr. William Hubbard, Vice President of Government Affairs,
Student Veterans of America.................................... 12
Prepared Statement........................................... 37
STATEMENTS FOR THE RECORD
Helicopter Association International............................. 41
Jim Hines Addendum............................................... 43
Honorable Lee M. Zeldin, U.S. House of Representatives (NY-01)... 44
Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA)............................... 45
Veterans Education Success (VES)................................. 46
Veterans of Foreign Wars of The United States (VFW).............. 47
H.R. 815; H.R. 3018; H.R. 3634; H.R. 3949; H.R. 3965; A Draft Bill
Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United States Code, To Eliminate The
Applicability Of Certain Provisions Of The Administrative Procedure Act
To Housing And Business Loan Programs Of The Department Of Veterans
Affairs''; And A Draft Bill Entitled, ``To Amend Title 38, United
States Code, To Make Certain Improvements To The Use Of Educational
Assistance Provided By The Department Of Veterans Affairs For Flight
Training Programs''
----------
Wednesday, October 11, 2017
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U. S. House of Representatives,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:01 p.m., in
Room 334, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Jodey Arrington,
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Arrington, Wenstrup, Rutherford,
Banks, O'Rourke, Takano, Correa
STATEMENT OF JODEY ARRINGTON, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Arrington. Good afternoon, everyone. The Subcommittee
will come to order. I know we have and anticipate a few more
witnesses, but we will go ahead and get started.
I want to thank you all for joining us here today to
discuss seven pieces of legislation pending before the
Subcommittee with the intentions of benefitting the lives of
our servicemembers, veterans and families.
The bills brought forth by our colleagues today would make
improvements to the Transition Assistance Program; streamline
the approval of apprenticeship and pre-apprenticeship programs
for GI Bill funding; VA's Home Loan Program, so that veterans
and their families can afford to buy their own home in high-
cost areas, and improve veterans' ability to rent a home while
they are attending school on the GI Bill.
I will let our colleagues who introduced these pieces of
legislation discuss their bills in greater detail, but I do
want to briefly discuss the two draft bills on the agenda today
that have not yet been introduced.
One of the bills is a proposal to change how flight schools
are paid for under the GI Bill. It is similar to a bill that
Dr. Wenstrup introduced last Congress and that moved out of the
House unanimously, which required tuition and fee payments
under the GI Bill spent at flight schools and other contracted
programs at public schools to be placed under the same cap that
is in place for private schools, which is currently at $22,850
a year. This proposal, however, would include this cap, but
would also allow veterans to elect to have these payments
accelerated, so that they can receive double the amount of
tuition and fee payments over a shorter period of time.
This was a suggestion from the flight programs to address
the higher expenses we have seen associated with flight
training and the shorter time period needed to complete the
training.
This proposal would also allow for a private pilot's
license to be paid for under the GI Bill, which is currently
not allowed.
I want to reiterate that this is still only a draft
proposal and I look at today's hearing as an opportunity to
receive feedback from stakeholders on this particular proposal.
The second proposed draft bill would change current law to
provide the Secretary greater flexibility to avoid issuing
regulations related to VA-backed home loans. The Administrative
Procedures Act exempt non-VA home loan programs like FHA,
Freddie and Fannie Mac, and Ginnie Mae from the formal rule-
making provisions; however, VA is still required to issue
formal rules related to the home loan program. As a result, VA
has less flexibility to quickly respond to predatory practices
that occur in the housing market because VA must issue formal
regulations each time. This draft will simply allow the VA to
make changes without rulemaking to protect veteran home buyers.
I am eager to discuss each of these seven pieces of
legislation before us today, and I am grateful to my colleagues
who have introduced these bills and to our witnesses for being
here to discuss them. I look forward to a productive and
meaningful discussion.
Now I will yield to my dear friend and fellow Texan Beto
O'Rourke.
STATEMENT OF BETO O'ROURKE, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. O'Rourke. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for bringing us all
together and bringing our witnesses together here.
I am also grateful for the work and thought that have been
invested in these bills and I look forward to hearing about
them directly from the authors of these bills, and then having
a chance to hear General Worley and his thoughts in response
and in answer to our questions.
So with that, I will yield back to you and we will begin to
receive testimony.
Mr. Arrington. I thank the Ranking Member.
Before I recognize our colleagues at the table, I want to
yield to our colleague and my friend Mr. Rutherford from
Florida for 5 minutes to discuss his bill, H.R. 3965.
Mr. Rutherford.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE JOHN H. RUTHERFORD
Mr. Rutherford. Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member
O'Rourke, and fellow Members of the Subcommittee, I want to
thank you for this opportunity to speak on behalf of my
legislation, the Veterans Armed for Success Act.
While in my district in Northeast Florida and in my time
serving on this Committee, I have heard how companies prefer to
hire veterans for many different reasons: they are responsible,
responsive, and hardworking. Their skills translate well into
many fields and, in short, veterans get the job done right. Yet
many veterans I have met feel frustrated with their post-
service career opportunities and often do not know how to
translate their learned skills into the job market.
There are few things more important to the quality of life
for our Nation's veterans than transitioning into stable, long-
term employment. It creates economically prosperous families,
it builds our local communities, and, of extreme importance, it
improves the mental health for many of our veterans.
In response to these growing needs of veterans and their
families in our area, Operation New Uniform in my home city of
Jacksonville was created. With large Navy, Marine Corps, and
Florida Guard installations in my district, thousands of active
duty personnel and over 150,000 veterans, retired veterans call
Northeast Florida home. And when you match this population with
the huge corporate interest in Jacksonville, ONU, as Operation
New Uniform is known, they have successfully matched these
veterans with companies looking to hire veterans. And through
their skill-based learning and training, 96 percent of veterans
that have gone through their program have found meaningful
careers within 4 months of completing the program.
I have spoken at the ONU graduation and seen firsthand how
effective this program can be. It has been a huge win for both
veterans and Northeast Florida businesses. While the group has
been hugely successful, ONU is funded through private donations
and, unfortunately, they have had to turn away many veterans
who apply for the program because they simply do not have
enough resources.
When I first met with the group, I was surprised to hear
that. Currently, no Federal program exists for these
organizations. And looking further into the issue, I learned
that while the DoD Transition Assistance Program, TAP, and
efforts at the Department of Labor have worked to meet
veterans' needs, clearly there needs to be some supplemental
off-base programs for those who need further assistance in
finding employment. ONU is just one example of many
organizations that the VA, DoD, and DOL can work with more
closely to ensure that the programs and resources our veterans
receive are directly leading to long-term careers.
My legislation will create a Federal grant-matching program
to encourage more organizations to set our veterans up for
success, will shore up our commitment to getting resources to
veterans in need of further assistance, and will also gauge the
nationwide need for programs like ONU.
And so in closing I would like to thank the Chairman, the
Ranking Member, my fellow Congressman from Jacksonville Al
Lawson, who is introducing this bill with me, and as well my
colleagues on the Subcommittee and Subcommittee staff for their
commitment to this and other bills under consideration today
that will truly improve the economic livelihood of our
veterans.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rutherford appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Rutherford.
It is an honor to be joined by our colleagues Mr. Himes of
Connecticut, Ms. McSally of Arizona, and Mr. Khanna of
California, who I know will be here any minute. I want to thank
you guys for being here. We will give you 5 minutes to make
your presentation and we will start with the gentleman from
Connecticut, Mr. Himes.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE JAMES A. HIMES
Mr. Himes. Thank you, Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member
O'Rourke, and Members of the Subcommittee for the opportunity
to testify today on the Securing Electronic Records for
Veteran's Ease, or SERVE Act. I would also like to thank my
cosponsors, including Representative Coffman, Representative
Holmes Norton, Representative Crowley, and Representative
Estey.
Mr. Chairman, I will give a brief summation of my
testimony, but would be grateful for the opportunity to place
the written testimony on the record.
Mr. Chairman, veterans and their families face real
challenges when they transition to civilian life. We have an
important responsibility, as you know all too well, to do
everything that we can to help. Finding housing, a roof over
their heads, should not be an ordeal, especially if it is
caused by difficulties in showing the stipend that veterans get
from Uncle Sam.
Mr. Chairman, in conversations with student veterans
throughout my district, proof of income for housing kept coming
up as a big challenge. One ex-Marine, Nicholas Quinzi, the
founder of the Student Veterans Club at Sacred Heart University
in my district, told my office that if he had a wish list of
things to make the veteran experience better, the number-one
item would be fixing the lack of verification available for the
monthly housing stipend. He says, I quote, ``I am a full-time
student. I can't really have a full-time job while taking 5 or
6 classes a semester, as well as summer classes, so my income
isn't really income, which means there's no way for me to
procure a house. Even attempting to rent is a nightmare.''
The fact that Nick and many veterans like him have no proof
of income that a property management firm could consider when
weighing creditworthiness and income is just silly.
Here is the commonsense fix: H.R. 3634 would require the
Department of Veterans Affairs to make documentation of Post-9/
11 GI Bill monthly housing stipend accessible and available
online. Student veterans will use this documentation to provide
the needed verification to housing agents, leasing companies,
and landlords.
This legislation could have a big effect. Currently, there
are approximately 1.1 million students using the Post-9/11 GI
Bill.
I appreciate the VA's attention to this issue and
understand that they support the intent of the bill, but that
they feel that the goals of the legislation have been met with
the availability of a statement of benefits. Unfortunately, Mr.
Chairman, the statement of benefits does not solve this
problem. Not all authorized Post-9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries
have access to the statement of benefits on Vets.gov and the
statement is not always accepted as proof of income.
The statement of benefits also includes personal data and
information that veterans might not want to share with
landlords.
So an official form accessible on the e-benefits portal
verifying the benefit is necessary. This functionality already
exists for civil service preference, commissary and exchange
privileges, proof-of-service cards, and VA compensation and
pension benefit verification.
In closing, Mr. Chairman, I would like to thank the
Subcommittee for its consideration of the Securing Electronic
Records for Veteran's Ease Act, and I look forward to working
with the Members of this Committee to continue to support our
student veterans.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back the balance of my
time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Himes appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Mr. Himes, thank you for your interest in
helping serve our veterans, I think I can say that on behalf of
the entire Subcommittee, and thanks for your time today.
Ms. McSally, 5 minutes.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE MARTHA MCSALLY
Ms. McSally. Thank you, Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member
O'Rourke, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thanks for having me
here to speak about an issue of immense importance to our
servicemembers and veterans, the transition from service life
to civilian life.
Having served in the U.S. Air Force myself for 26 years and
knowing a lot of people who have as well, I know how difficult
it can be for veterans to navigate the job search as a private
citizen and transition.
My bill is the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act, H.R.
3018, and it will ease this process for outgoing servicemembers
by allowing them to use their education benefits they have
already earned to participate in pre-apprenticeship programs
that are proven to increase the likelihood of gainful
employment.
At a time when our vets are seeing daunting rates of
underemployment and our national skills-based workforce is
shrinking, we must find creative solutions to bolster resources
we are offering to our vets.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that in 2016 the
annual unemployment rate for post-9/11 vets was 5.1 percent,
compared to the national average was 4.6 percent. Although we
have seen unemployment rates for veterans decreasing overall
since 2011, which is good, their rate of underemployment is
actually increasing. In fact, in 2016, more than 27,000
veterans were getting help from job search grantees, which is a
23-percent growth over 2015.
In other words, while more veterans are finding jobs, they
aren't finding the right jobs that allow them to take care of
their families, advance their careers, or find new career
paths. Many veterans today have to work two or even three jobs
just to make ends meet.
What's worse is we know that businesses and organizations
want to hire veterans. According to a 2016 report by the U.S.
Chamber of Commerce's Hiring Our Heroes Program, they found
that veterans are ranked third on employer's lists for priority
recruitment behind women and candidates with advanced degrees.
I am glad I have all three of those in case I am looking for a
job, but I can imagine, I talk to employers all the time and
they want veterans working for them. The core values that we
bring to an organization of integrity, of excellence and
dedication, and teamwork and reliability, all those things are
the soft skills that employers I talk to every single day want.
Evidence shows businesses across the country want to hire
and train the veterans, but many cannot because they can't
accept untrained veterans to their programs, because the basic
fees that the veteran has to pay they just can't pay out of
pocket for these pre-apprenticeship programs.
Additionally, our Nation is facing a growing shortage of
qualified skills-based and trade-based workers. According to a
study conducted in 2012, 53 percent of skilled U.S. workers
were 45 years or older and 20 percent were over the age of 55.
So this shortage is even greater for employees in high
technical fields like cyber security. It is imperative we
attract a new, younger workforce willing to apply themselves in
these highly technical fields if we hope to remain competitive
in the global economy.
A way to fix the problem is to make it easier for veterans
to take advantage of apprenticeship programs in these skill-
based fields. In particular, the Department of Labor has
endorsed pre-apprenticeship programs as a path to helping
individuals learn about the new careers, acquire new trade-
based skills, qualify to meet the minimum standards for other
Federal apprenticeship programs, and get a leg up on their
apprenticeship applications. However, their GI Bill benefits
may not be used right now to supplement the cost of these
Department of Labor-approved pre-apprenticeship training
programs in skilled industries. It simply does not make sense.
The Veteran's Entry to Apprenticeship Act would remedy this
issue by requiring the Department of Veterans Affairs to allow
Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to be used to cover costs of pre-
apprenticeship programs, in addition to apprenticeship
programs. This is a commonsense step that would provide
veterans with additional resources to acquire new skills, give
businesses a cost-effective path to a younger, willing
workforce, and provide a pipeline of new workers in highly
technical fields for the future workforce.
With an increasing number of post-9/11 veterans looking to
enter the workforce and an estimated 453,000 veterans facing
unemployment, now is a perfect time to encourage our war
fighters to pursue careers in these high-demand occupations.
Expanding job training opportunities for veterans not only
makes sense for our veterans, but it is also a win for our
businesses.
Again, thanks for allowing me to speak on this important
issue for our veterans and our national economy.
Additionally, I would like to thank the 13 other
cosponsors, including Members of this Committee, as well as
various outside groups that support my legislation that include
the National Guard Association of the United States, the
Reserve Officers Association, the Enlisted Association of the
National Guard, the National Roofing Contractors Association,
the National Association of Home Builders, and the Associated
General Contractors for their support for my bill.
And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Ms. McSally appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. The gentlelady from Arizona yields back. And
I want to say again to both of you on behalf of the Committee,
we appreciate you proposing commonsense solutions to help serve
our veterans.
Ms. McSally, thank you for your service to our country.
Ms. McSally. Absolutely.
Mr. Arrington. And God bless both of you. And I think,
unless there are any further questions or comments, we are
going to dismiss you all, and then we are going to make Mr.
Khanna pay for being late in some way. We may cut him some
slack, because he just had a newborn baby boy and so he may be
a little disheveled, but thank you all for coming. I hope this
is all for the record.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Arrington. Okay. Let's now recognize and make
introductions regarding our second and final panel. And then,
again, we will work Mr. Khanna in as he joins us.
Welcome back General Bob Worley, Director of VA's Education
Service, who is accompanied by Mr. Jeff London, Director of
VA's Loan Guaranty Service.
I also want to welcome back Mr. John Kamin, Assistant
Director of Veterans Education and Employment for The American
Legion. And, finally, Mr. William Hubbard, Vice President of
Government Affairs for Student Veterans of America.
Thank you all for being here today.
And here is Representative Khanna. If you would come sit
with us on the dais. And before I get to the panelists before
us, we would like to hear a little bit about your piece of
legislation that I am very familiar with as a cosponsor and so
honored to be a part of this effort and this commonsense
solution to streamline some things for our veterans regarding
apprenticeship programs.
Mr. Khanna, you have got the floor for 5 minutes.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HONORABLE RO KHANNA
Mr. Khanna. Well, thank you, Chairman Arrington and Ranking
Member O'Rourke, for your leadership in helping craft this
legislation and working with the veterans groups on this
legislation. I really appreciate your personal commitment to
these issues and working with Joe Wescott and others to craft
this bill.
I am Congressman Ro Khanna. I have the honor of
representing Silicon Valley in the 17th District of California.
And last week, after a few months of meetings and discussions
with think tanks and companies, the National Association of
State Approving Agencies, and Members of this Committee,
including both of you, introduced 3949, the Veterans
Apprenticeship and Labor Opportunity Reform bill, the VALOR
Act.
And I want to note here the extraordinary moment where you,
Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, made this your bill in getting
on the bill and that that is not typical, and it is a
commitment to the bipartisan work of Congress.
This legislation is very simple: it basically provides
veterans with greater access to apprenticeships. Right now, if
you are a company and you want to provide an apprenticeship for
a veteran, you have to get approval not just from the state
agency where you are located, you also have to get approval
from every single state where you want to provide that
apprenticeship. And we have heard from both veterans, from the
state agency, and from companies that this was an
extraordinarily cumbersome process. And particularly states,
some of whom that have only a few veterans, didn't have many
veterans, companies wouldn't want to go there to provide the
apprenticeship because they didn't want to have to go through
all the bureaucratic paperwork of having to go through the
approval process.
So this idea came actually from the state approval agencies
themselves in discussion with your offices, and with the
majority and minority staff, and they helped streamline the
process. So now the approval would just have to be in where the
company is headquartered. And they would of course coordinate
with the other states where they are providing apprenticeships,
but they are not going to have to fill out duplicative
paperwork again and again. And as a result, I think that we are
going to see many more companies providing these
apprenticeships.
I am also proud to say that it is bicameral in nature.
Senator Cotton and Senator Tillis have introduced companion
legislation in the United States Senate as Senate Bill 1936.
Finally, I must thank Joe Wescott, the Legislative Director
at the National Association of State Approving Agencies, for
working in a bipartisan basis with you, Mr. Chairman, our
Ranking Member, our office, Gio Saba [ph] on my team, who has
done tremendous work in coming up with legislation that would
have the buy-in of both his agency, the companies and the
veterans.
A lot of times people say to me as a freshman Member of
Congress, you know, it seems so partisan, how do you enjoy
being in Congress, what can you get done, and it is really
moments like this that I point to in saying, you know, people
around here do want to do things that are going to move the
ball forward. I think this is an example of legislation that is
bipartisan, it helps our veterans, it is in the Nation's
interest. We are going to see more people who make the ultimate
sacrifice sign up to serve our country have an opportunity now
to join the private sector because of legislation like this.
So I just want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your
leadership, Ranking Member O'Rourke for your leadership, and
look forward to assisting in any way as your Committee has
questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Khanna appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Khanna, for your interest in
serving our veterans and your leadership, your bipartisan
leadership on this effort.
And I mentioned the newest member of the Khanna family,
Baby Soren, and we are very proud of you and he is beautiful
and congratulations. And now you can get out of here.
Mr. Khanna. Thank you. The only one I keep waiting, Mr.
Chairman, for you is my son and wife and that is why I was a
little late. So I apologize, but thank you for giving me the
chance.
Mr. Arrington. That is a good excuse, we will accept that
one today.
Now let's go back to our panelists and we will give General
Worley 5 minutes. The floor is yours.
OPENING STATEMENT OF GENERAL WORLEY
General Worley. Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, Ranking
Member O'Rourke, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am pleased
to be here today to provide the views of the Department of
Veterans Affairs on the pending legislation.
Accompanying me today is Mr. Jeff London, Director of our
Loan Guaranty Service.
Due to when we received the notice of the hearing and the
draft bill text on the Administrative Procedures Act, we will
follow up with the Committee as soon as possible on H.R. 815,
H.R. 3018, and the APA draft bill.
H.R. 3634 would ensure that individuals may access
documentation verifying the monthly housing stipend paid to the
individuals under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. VA supports the intent
of the proposed legislation, but notes this change would
provide access to similar information currently available to
veterans through a recently launched statement of benefits
letter, which is printable and accessible through Vets.gov. The
letter provides a link to the amount of a veteran's monthly
housing stipend, and other eligibility and entitlement
information under the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
Presently, as Congressman Himes mentioned, the statement of
benefits is only available for veterans, but we are working to
make it available for all beneficiaries.
H.R. 3949 would designate the State Approving Agency, as
you just heard, for the state in which the headquarters of a
multi-state apprenticeship program is located as the approving
agency for this program. VA supports this bill.
Currently, non-Federal apprenticeship programs operating in
more than one state must request approval from each SAA in that
state in which it operates. The proposed legislation would
allow one SAA to approve the multi-state apprenticeship
program, making it much easier for multi-state employers to
establish apprenticeships throughout the country.
VA, however, would recommend that the phrase ``headquarters
of the apprenticeship program'' be further defined so as to
prevent competing claims of jurisdictional authority from
multiple SAAs?
H.R. 3965 authorizes VA to make grants to organizations
that would provide employment assistance to recently
transitioned servicemembers. Recipients of the grant would
provide resume assistance, interview training, job recruitment
training, and related services. We would like to note that
these services are currently provided by the Department of
Labor through our memorandum of understanding between our
departments and, therefore, the intent of this bill might be
best accomplished by the Department of Labor.
The draft flight school bill related to flight programs
would make certain improvements to the use of educational
assistance provided by VA for flight training programs. Section
1(a) of the proposed legislation would remove the requirement
for an individual receiving Montgomery GI Bill active duty
benefits to possess a valid private pilot's certificate before
qualifying to receive benefits for flight training.
VA supports the intent of section 1(a); however, we do have
concerns about removing this requirement, as this would allow
certain individuals to pursue private flight training as an
avocation as opposed to a vocation.
Section 1(b) would allow an individual receiving Post-9/11
GI Bill benefits to elect to receive accelerated payments for
tuition and fees of flight training pursued at institutions of
higher learning. VA does not support section 1(b).
Under this provision, individuals would exhaust their
entitlement prior to completing their program of education and,
in addition, the amount of an accelerated payment could exceed
the actual cost of tuition and fees charged for any given
enrollment period.
VA supports sections 1(c) and 1(d), which are consistent
with our fiscal year 2018 budget submission, and would limit
the amount of tuition and fees paid for enrollment in flight
programs at certain programs at IHLs that are part of a
contract or agreement with an entity other than another public
IHL.
VA remains concerned about high tuition and fee payments
for enrollment in degree programs and especially those
involving flight training at public IHLs; these sections of the
proposed legislation would remedy this situation.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. We appreciate
the opportunity to present our views and look forward to your
questions.
[The prepared statement of General Worley appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Worley.
And now 5 minutes for Mr. Kamin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF JOHN KAMIN
Mr. Kamin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good afternoon, Ranking
Member O'Rourke and Members of the Subcommittee.
On behalf of National Commander Denise Rohan and over 2
million members of The American Legion, we thank you for the
work you do in support of veterans, as well as their families.
With the passage of the Harry Colmery Veterans Educational
Assistance Act, we are honored to join you in a meaningful
discussion on how we can continue to work together to improve
the GI Bill.
I will be focusing only on two bills for the purpose of
framing discussion in two critical areas: improving the GI Bill
Apprenticeship Program and stabilizing costs for flight
schools.
To begin with apprenticeships, H.R. 3949, the VALOR Act.
Quite simply, this bill would streamline approval for
organizations with multi-state apprenticeship programs. Under
current law, apprenticeship programs must be approved by all
the SAAs they are operating in in order to be deemed eligible
for GI Bill use. Companies and organizations operating in
multiple states have to submit multiple applications for
approval that are subject to different interpretations.
Designating a headquarters-based SAA the approving authority
for all states clearly streamlines this process.
The American Legion supports this as an important step to
improving the GI Bill Apprenticeship Program. However, we are
duty-bound to inform this Subcommittee that significant
problems still remain with the apprenticeship program.
A 2015 GAO report recommended that the VA improve outreach,
ease administrative challenges, and establish outcome measures
for its OJT and apprenticeship program. However, after
discussing apprenticeship with stakeholders across industries,
it became clear that the need for administrative reforms far
outweighs any concerns with outreach. To put it bluntly, no
amount of marketing or advertising can sell a broken program,
and initial feedback suggests that fixes are desperately
needed.
What every company or organization enrolled in the GI Bill
Apprenticeship Program will tell you is that the solution
starts with electronic approval for veterans and certifying
officials. If you are from a college or university, approval
paperwork has been electronic since before the Post-9/11 GI
Bill even existed. For apprenticeships, the VA uses a fax
machine to hand-process each approval through regional offices.
In addition to the administrative burden faced by staff, the
effect on the veterans enrolled is also clear, as demonstrated
by the greater rate of late payments.
Some entrepreneurial companies and VA employees have come
up with their go-around for this scan the hand-signed approval
documents and email them in to a clued-in VA staffer. Of course
there is a size limit on email for the VA, which means that a
company scanning 500 approvals for apprenticeship may have to
send 18 emails over the course of a day.
Fixing these problems will not be easy, but make no
mistake, there is exceptional potential in the apprenticeship
program for both veterans and the country. However, promoting a
flawed program has the potential to poison the goodwill that
our Nation's employers have for servicemembers and veterans,
and The American Legion believes it is high time we bring this
program into the 21st century.
From apprenticeships, we move on to the subject of flight
schools. In 2015, the Los Angeles Times disclosed that some
public schools were charging inflated costs for flight fees,
taking advantage of a loophole in tuition for public school
flight programs. The draft bill proposed would set flight caps
at the tuition rate for private schools.
Now, some may ask why veterans groups would consider
legislation that would appear to lower the generosity of the GI
Bill. The answer to this is that we know the road to ruin for
the GI Bill begins when we forgo our responsibility to ensure
that it is an honorable investment of public dollars.
It was this Committee that in 1952 rolled back GI Bill
benefits for Korean veterans because the original GI Bill was
decried as open season on the U.S. Treasury. GAO attorneys
showed that two thirds of schools overcharged the Government at
that time to provide support on this. It is this history that
informs the discussion of flight schools for us today. Yet our
obligation must be measured with the responsibility that our
Nation has to veterans using the Post-9/11 GI Bill who aspire
to careers in aviation.
Legislation that caps the maximum GI Bill amount per year
for flight school would have the inevitable consequence of
discouraging pursuit of this vocation with greater debt
incurred by veterans and servicemembers who remain committed.
This draft legislation takes this into account with language
authorizing the use of additional months of eligibility to pay
remaining tuition and fees. This would appear to alleviate
concerns for discouraging pursuit of aviation, while putting
the choice in the hands of the veterans for how to
appropriately allocate their GI Bill.
The American Legion commends the Subcommittee for pursuing
a measured approach and is equally encouraged by the cost
savings that have already been made at public school aviation
programs.
In order to support this, however, The American Legion
calls for all cost savings projected by this measure to be
returned to VA education programs. Absent this and with no
resolution addressing the provisions of this legislation, The
American Legion will continue to work with both this Committee
and our membership to determine the course of action which best
serves veterans.
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and
distinguished Members, The American Legion appreciates the
opportunity to comment on the bills being considered by this
critical Subcommittee, and I will be happy to answer any
questions you may have.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Kamin appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Kamin.
Now 5 minutes for Mr. Hubbard.
OPENING STATEMENT OF WILLIAM HUBBARD
Mr. Hubbard. Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke,
and members of this customer, thank you for inviting Student
Veterans of America to submit our testimony on legislation
pending before this body, and our applause and appreciation to
you both for your leadership on the passage of the Forever GI
Bill.
Before addressing the legislation under consideration
today, I would like to express our concern with the proposed
rule change posted with the Federal Register in which the
Department of Veterans Affairs proposes waiving the law
pertaining to conflicts of interest, 38 U.S. Code 3683. This
law, passed by Congress decades ago, was intended to prevent
corruption in connection with VA's administration of the GI
Bill. The Federal notice proposes providing a blanket waiver of
this law.
We sent a letter to the VA and submitted public comment on
this issue strongly urging reconsideration of this ill-advised
proposal. We hope VA will take the public comments expressing
concern with deep consideration and enforce the law, or
exercise the individual waiver provision, as the law already
affords.
Mr. Chairman, I would like to spend the rest of my time
addressing the challenges associated with flight programs.
Former Chairman of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee
Jeff Miller perfectly captured this issue in a remark last year
as he stated, ``The GI Bill flight school loophole is so big
you could fly a 747 through it.''
Many of these programs cite a national shortage of pilots
as the justification for this training, but the shortage exists
within fixed wing aviation, planes, whereas the vast majority
of these programs are training students in rotor wing,
helicopters, for which there is no shortage of pilots. High-
cost programs for low-paying jobs is a model that is difficult
to support: $534,881, $471,441, $474,566, these are just a few
examples of the costs for individual students.
As these programs began receiving heightened oversight from
this Committee, several flight school lobbyists approached me
to make me an offer, an all-expenses-paid trip to visit one of
the schools, stating it was just near Las Vegas and they would
be happy to cover the costs if I wanted to stay a few extra
days. My reply to this was simple: I don't need a fancy trip to
Vegas to know what is going on here. Just send me the data.
That is not how I do business, that is not how Student Veterans
of America does business.
Many veterans were led to believe they would achieve high
starting salaries only to learn that at the beginning of their
career they were making less than $20,000.
So let's review. A half million dollars for a single
student, misleading veterans about the job market demand,
flaunting expensive degrees in the face of Congress, and trying
to lure potential opponents to take fancy trips to keep their
mouths shut. These are all things that some of these schools
looked at and thought I'm okay with that. Having been born and
raised in the Midwest by two parents working to make ends
meeting, I was raised to recognize between right and wrong, and
this was wrong.
At age 17, I enlisted in the Marine Corps with the goal of
serving our country and building my own life. While some
veterans choose to pursue a vocation in flight programs, many
of these programs continue to operate at levels requiring
vastly more resources than limits on vocational training costs.
VA data shows that while the number of students taking
flight training went up by only 171 students or 9 percent
between fiscal year 2013 and fiscal year 2014, the total cost
to taxpayers for this program grew by $37 million or 87 percent
over the same period. As of last year, some schools averaged a
cost of nearly a quarter million dollars per student.
Veterans who desire a career in aviation should be able to
achieve these goals and not at the expense of the GI Bill's
overall sustainability. VA currently affords a maximum of
roughly $13,000 for vocational flight training programs, yet
many programs continue to exploit the loophole of operating
through public and private programs, thereby undercutting the
law.
This legislation closes the flight loophole by
redesignating flight training from public institutions and SVA
supports this change. If this amount is too low, then a debate
should be had about raising the cap to meet the costs instead
of schools finding a slick work-around to funnel money into
their programs.
We thank this Committee and its Members for addressing the
long overdue challenges of the flight school loophole, and I
look forward to your questions about this issue and other
important topics up for discussion today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hubbard appears in the
Appendix]
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Hubbard, and I appreciate
your reference to the waiver regarding conflicts of interest.
We are looking at it now. If there is any pertinent information
we can loop you in, we will.
With that, let's now go--I am going to forgo questions for
now, but yield to the Ranking Member for 5 minutes for any
comments or questions he has.
Mr. O'Rourke. Mr. Chairman, I will do the same with one
quick exception.
I wanted to ask General Worley on Congressman Himes'
legislation, 3634, and you say the VA supports the intent of
this. You mentioned that you feel like there is already the
information available online with the exception of other
beneficiaries and you said that is coming shortly. How long
until we get there?
General Worley. I said we are working on that part, it is
not coming necessarily shortly, because it has to do with----
Mr. O'Rourke. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth.
General Worley. --it has to do with the login capability.
And thank you for the opportunity, Mr. O'Rourke, because
just to be clear on this capability, the statement of benefits
capability that we put into Vets.gov is brand new, we launched
that on 1 August. It provides benefit information, how much
entitlement you have used, how much is left, your benefit
level. It doesn't have currently, that document when you pull
it up doesn't have the housing on it directly, but you can link
to the comparison tool to get more information about the
housing allowance.
It sounds like what the intent of the bill is, is to have a
document that you can take to, you know, a rental agency or a
home rental or whatever it is to prove a certain amount of
income. And so we are investigating and I don't think it is a
huge lift, but our technical folks need to look at it, how we
just grab that current housing amount that you are getting
today and put that into the statement of benefits, and that way
it is printable, it is directly, easily accessible for
veterans.
It will take some time through the digital services efforts
to get kind of the secure logon ID for non-veteran
beneficiaries, so that is something that is in work, but I
can't predict the date that we will have that at this time.
Mr. O'Rourke. I wonder if it would be possible for you to
work directly with Mr. Himes and with his constituent. He seems
to have somebody who can articulate very effectively what the
problem is. I think if you can meet the concern to his
constituent's satisfaction and if you could report back to the
Committee, then we don't need an act of Congress to get this
done. It seems like a very commonsense request, it seems like
it is also something that you are working on, but it would be
nice to have that confirmed by the veteran in question. And we
could then take that back to our constituents and just make
sure that it passes the test with them as well.
General Worley. I would tend to agree that it probably
doesn't take an act of Congress to do this. I would just point
out, though, sir, that we can put that information out there,
whether an apartment agency or a home rental agency, or whoever
it is accepts that as income, that is up to them, that is not
something we can mandate, of course.
Mr. O'Rourke. Okay, thank you.
As I yield back to the Chairman, I just want to also thank
Mr. Kamin for his comprehensive testimony on all the
legislation before us, and I want to thank Mr. Hubbard for his
very powerful and damning testimony. I mean, it is hard to hear
what you just shared with us and not meet this with some
urgency about ensuring that those resources are going to where
they are going to be most effective and that they are not
wasted, and that we are not defrauding both the taxpayer and
the veteran. So I just want to thank you for your testimony, I
found it to be very powerful.
I yield back to the Chairman.
Mr. Arrington. The Ranking Member yields back. I thank him
for his comments.
And now I want to yield 5 minutes to Mr. Rutherford.
Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I thank the panel for being here today as we discuss some
of these bills that I think are really going to be very
beneficial to our veterans back home.
Mr. Hubbard, you mentioned that the Transition Assistance
Program maintains a heavy emphasis on employment and not enough
on education. Do you believe this Congress needs to look at
ways of improving TAP on a much larger scale?
Mr. Hubbard. Thank you for the opportunity, Mr. Rutherford,
for that question. Absolutely, in short, we believe that TAP
overall needs a significant overhaul.
If you consider for the majority of students, for example,
that go to school, two thirds are first generation. That means
over 18 years of their lifetime they don't have their parents
teaching them the small nuances of going to higher ED, much
like a student who has parents who went to school. For example,
the FASFA form; who knows what the FASFA form is? If your
parents didn't go to school, you likely don't get that
information growing up. And to think that 18 years of societal
and cultural knowledge can be compressed into 2 weeks as you
get out of the military when your primary focus is making sure
that you have housing, that your family is taken care of, and
that you are going to be able to put food on the table, to
think that you can compress that knowledge into that period of
time is impossible.
And so we think that over a 4-year period of an average
enlistment, which is the typical individual's in the military,
we believe that there is an opportunity to spread that
curriculum through that 4 years, so that the information is
both institutionalized and also understood on a much deeper
level, so that when individuals are exiting the military they
are able to focus on really doing that the right way versus
trying to take this information on.
Mr. Rutherford. Right. But more specifically drilling down
to the program within the Department of Labor and their
Veterans Employment and Training Services Program, under DOL
they are just not receiving the attention that they should, and
that is kind of why I think programs like Operation New Uniform
and other community programs that already exist that are
successful and have a proven track record should be supported.
What do you think within the Department of Labor we need to
try and influence to get that attention that they need from
DOL?
Mr. Hubbard. Well, sir, you have been obviously a leader on
this issue and, you know, of course we appreciate that. To
highlight some of the successes that have been had I think is
hugely important. It is not always negative stereotypes and
things that we need to focus on, but sometimes the positive
things that are happening and DOL VETS is a perfect example of
that. They have an exceptional program, their team is really on
point, and to highlight some of that success I think is
important.
I would like to hopefully work with the Secretary of the
Department of Labor to highlight that program as much as
possible and ideally work to coordinate the program with also
the Department of Veterans Affairs, Department of Education,
and certainly DoD I believe is important in that equation.
Mr. Rutherford. Okay. And dealing with Veterans Armed for
Success Act, 3965, which I have introduced, from a TAP's
standpoint, do you have any suggestions that we should be
looking at on that bill or----
Mr. Hubbard. Well, sir, we were very excited to see the
bill. We thought, if anything, it should be expanded to include
additional education counseling. The Department of Education
has several programs that provides counselors to first-
generation college students, we believe perhaps providing some
funding for programs like that would be good. But the concept
in and of itself we think is excellent.
Mr. Rutherford. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Arrington. The gentleman yields back and we would like
to now yield 5 minutes to the gentleman from California, Mr.
Correa.
Mr. Correa. I'll reserve my comments for now, sir.
Mr. Arrington. Do you want to yield your time?
Mr. Correa. Yes.
Mr. Arrington. Okay, the gentleman yields back. And now we
will yield 5 minutes to Mr. Banks for questions.
Mr. Banks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As my colleague Mr. Rutherford said, this is a great
portfolio of a number of pieces of legislation that are
exciting to provide for our veteran population. Just a few
quick questions.
First of all, Mr. Kamin, I was struck on page 5 of your
written testimony you refer to the GI Bill Apprenticeship
Program as a, quote, ``flawed program.'' I wonder if you can
elaborate on that and tell us what--I mean, you suggest that we
should quit marketing it, we can't do a lot to improve it, but
what are The American Legion's thoughts on ways that we can
salvage a flawed program?
Mr. Kamin. Thank you for your question, sir.
And to elaborate on that, I would go back to the original
GAO report, and when you parse through the details, there are a
couple of numbers and a couple of surveys that stand out. It
listed that 11 to 15 employers of apprenticeship sponsors said
the process was burdensome and inefficient. When they surveyed
the students, they said 66 out of the 156 veterans received
benefits late. And when I first heard that, it seems troubling,
but I was more upset when I learned that late is considered 30
days after the fact.
And when I talked to an employer who was running the
program, I said, well, when do people normally receive the
benefits? When I was at school, you would expect it within 72
hours of the first month. And she said that she had 500
apprentices and could say that it was pure scattershot, she
could not guarantee whether it would be on the 2nd of the month
or the 28th of the month.
So if I am a veteran going into an apprenticeship program
and I am trying to match my GI Bill payment up with rents, I am
going to be put in a tough situation under the current system,
and that all goes back to the fact that it is still run on
paper. And as long as we are still relying on fax machines,
which was also written in the report that many employers would
have to send three or four times to get it certified with
excuses such as we ran out of paper, when we were hear that as
the problem, as the holdup for benefits, we think that it is an
issue that needs to be looked at.
So, again, it can be a beautiful program, but I think if we
are looking at why more companies haven't engaged in it, you
can look at some facts for how the companies are using it right
now and come up with some very clear answers.
Mr. Banks. So in addition to H.R. 3949, what additional
changes need to be made to improve and streamline the program
so that we would no longer refer to it as a flawed program?
Mr. Kamin. Well, to be forthright, we are still exploring
the solutions and we are still talking to employers over what
exactly the solutions could be.
The short answer is that having apprenticeships be
incorporated into the VA-ONCE system would be the solution for
this. That would also be, I can only imagine, the problems and
the reasons that that hasn't already happened. So I don't want
to take anything away from VA when it comes to the complexity
of that.
In addition, there is also a burden over signatures for
apprentices which they need to calculate hours every month. So
if I am an apprentice and I am a truck driver, which there are
a lot of shipping companies who use this, I have to take
across, even if I am a thousand miles away, to fill out an hour
sheet, fax it in or scan it in, if I have a high-quality
scanner, to whatever industry representative I have, and they
take that signature and then incorporate it with theirs.
So the dual-signature process we see is overly burdensome,
which I think Mr. Wescott also alluded to in his testimony, and
just by simple industry standards, the certifying official
empowering them to manage the hours would be a way to supply it
as well.
Mr. Banks. Okay, thank you.
General Worley, with regards to the provision for pre-
apprenticeship programs in Representative McSally's H.R. 3018,
can you elaborate on situations where you have seen veterans
who are seeking this type of training?
General Worley. Congressman, I can't really elaborate on
that, because we don't have those programs today and, to my
knowledge, at least my personal knowledge, I have not heard of
people seeking pre-apprenticeships per se. But I do agree that
there may be opportunity out there and, unfortunately, we
didn't have the chance to do the costs and get the views
finalized for this hearing. We will provide those as soon as
possible after the hearing.
Mr. Banks. Mr. Hubbard, can you elaborate on interest?
Mr. Hubbard. Thank you for the question. We haven't seen
any explicit interest in pre-apprenticeship programs. As it
exists, the GI Bill doesn't offer this for even higher
education as an opportunity. I think ultimately the percentage
of folks who are using apprenticeships, that is not the bulk of
the GI Bill. The bulk are going to school and getting a degree
there, so that is not typically something that we see.
Mr. Banks. Thank you and I yield back.
Mr. Arrington. The gentleman yields back.
Now we will yield 5 minutes to Mr. Takano.
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
General Worley, do you have any suggestions for how we can
ensure the provision in the flight school loophole that allows
benefits to be used for a private pilot's license goes strictly
towards supporting the veteran's career instead of for instance
their hobby, do you have any suggestions about that?
General Worley. Well, we would be happy to work with the
Committee on language that would do that, if the intent was to
have it strictly tied to a degree program and not to be
avocational in nature.
Congressman, the fact of the matter is, people could use
any of the current GI Bill benefits with a stated intent of
completing a degree, but only with their real intent of
completing a few of a particular type of course. So you will
never weed out all of that, but the way the language is in the
bill today someone could just go get their private pilot's
license and stop right there and just use it recreationally as
opposed to for a job.
Mr. Takano. Well, of course I agree that it is a benefit
they have earned through their service. I don't want to suggest
that there is a way for us to say that veterans can only use
their benefits only for gainful employment, I mean, they can
use their benefits for what they want, but I do think we do
have to stay within the bounds of what is sustainable.
And I appreciate that history from The American Legion
about the World War II GI Bill and the questions that arose
afterwards, that was very instructive.
General Worley, another question. If there is a safeguard
in place for accelerated payments such as limiting their use
only in the case of programs that are 18-month or shorter,
would VA support accelerated payments?
General Worley. I would have to take that back, Congressman
Takano, just to be able to look at the specific recommendation.
As I mentioned, we don't support the accelerated payments for
really two key reasons: one, you are burning twice the
entitlement and, if you are in a 4-year degree program, taking
accelerated payments will certainly burn your entitlement much
quicker; and, secondly, the way the payment scheme is laid out
in the language, it is not tied to the actual cost per se.
So you could get double the payment. If your tuition fees
for example were 18,000, you would get double that for a 4-
month semester, and that is not tied to anything and you are
going to burn 8 months of entitlement. Conversely, if your
costs are more than the private cap, you would get double the
cap and you would still be short.
So that is the reason the VA opposes the accelerated
payments as it is prescribed right now.
Mr. Takano. All right. Well, thank you.
I just want to say, Mr. Chairman, that we dealt with this
flight school loophole in previous legislation in a bipartisan
manner, both sides recognized the unsustainability, I am
disappointed that the Senate took it out. I am very pleased
that we have veteran's service organizations with tremendous
integrity and a farsightedness to understand that we have got
to have a GI Bill that is sustainable, and we simply cannot
sustain this kind of expense. And I am very proud to be
associated with this Committee's work and also your leadership
on this issue.
Mr. Hubbard, I want to give you a little more time for the
benefit of--well, I don't want to sound patronizing, but Mr.
Rutherford has taken an interest in improving the TAP program.
And I have often thought that we need to not only do work post-
separation, but the real work needs to be done pre-separation
from the day that the servicemember takes their oath with a
non-commissioned officer, and more work needs to be done with
the Department of Defense while the servicemember is actually
in active duty or, you know, in service. Do you have any more
thoughts on how we can improve TAP in that regard?
Mr. Hubbard. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I
think ultimately a lot of the work that happens in TAP is more
of an orientation. When you enter a college program, typically
you get an orientation to the campus, they point you where the
key buildings are and where to find things. You are not
expected to complete a degree in orientation; it is just that,
it orients you to the campus. Very similarly, I believe that
TAP ultimately needs to be re-framed in that same thought
process, it is an orientation to resources, and to expect that
individuals would learn and understand everything that they
need to know in that 2-week period, it is just not possible.
And so I believe, ultimately, between the Department of
Defense as the starting point and then into work with the VA,
there is a lot of conversation to be had about what that
relationship looks like, and certainly pulling in also the
Department of Labor, as well as the Department of Education, to
ensure that they are all coordinated. I don't believe that that
is the case currently, although I do know that there are
efforts to begin those discussions and we are fully supportive
of that.
Mr. Takano. Yes. Well, thank you very much.
My time is up and I yield back.
Mr. Arrington. The gentleman yields back. I yield myself 5
minutes for questions.
Let me follow up on what my colleague Mr. Banks was
referencing in your remarks, Mr. Kamin, about the flaws of the
apprenticeship program. I think there are lots of programs that
are flawed in one way or the other throughout the government
and I think the question is, is it fundamentally flawed and
where we need to scrap it, save some taxpayer money and save
time and frustration on the part of the customer, in this case
the veteran, or do we fix it and just make it work.
My understanding is the apprenticeship programs, the
outcome on employment rate is very good, it is 91 percent, that
is my understanding, and the average annual salary for someone
going through an apprenticeship program is $60,000. So it seems
like the merit is there, if you can make the program work, but
sometimes I think there are a hundred ways that the Federal
Government can make a program not work. But I know General
Worley is committed to that. It sounds like a pretty
straightforward fix, just modernize the administrative process,
and it sounds like that is not an act of Congress, that is an
act of the administration and the leadership.
So, General Worley, would you like to comment on that? Can
we fix this?
General Worley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We have in fact moved significantly with respect to
implementing the recommendations of the GAO report that was
referred to. In fact, today if you--well, first of all, let me
start with the approval process. This happened about 2 years
ago, as I testified in our last hearing on apprenticeships,
working with the Department of Labor, the registered
apprenticeships are deemed approved for GI Bill, it just takes
a couple of additional pieces of paper so that we know there is
a certifying official. And when I saw we, I am talking about
state approving agencies who are the authorities in approving
these programs in their states, not the VA. So it just takes a
couple of extra pieces of paper to get a program approved in a
state.
With respect to the initial enrollment or the initial entry
into an apprenticeship, that is modernized today by VA- ONCE.
So someone can go into the VA-ONCE system, just like if you are
at an IHL and submit someone for their apprenticeship and
establish them in our system as in an apprenticeship program at
a particular employer.
What we have done with respect to the monthly certification
of the hours worked is, as an interim step, we can do that
through our GI Bill Web site. There's an ask-question setup,
you have to set up an account, and the certifying official can
submit the hours worked through that. We are very close to
putting those monthly certifications into the VA-ONCE system
with the signatures on file. So the certifying official will
have the student's signature on file and it will make that
process, the dual-signature process that Mr. Kamin referred to,
which is a legal requirement, by the way, it is a statutory
requirement, it will still fulfill that requirement, only do it
in an electronic manner.
So we are making great progress and, as I testified last
time, we are still trying to, we are still working and should
in the not-too-distant future have our own assessment of
outcomes for those beneficiaries in OJT and apprenticeship
programs.
Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Worley.
I think this would be with you or Mr. London, my next
question about the Administrative Procedures Act and
understanding that that is, to me as a former regulator at the
FDIC, an important part of the process for public input, make
sure the stakeholders know what is coming down the pike, and
that all stakeholders have some input in the process and in the
final outcome. And I have seen a lot of good intentions gone
wrong in the marketplace and have major unintended consequences
in the name of solving a consumer protection challenge or, in
this case, predatory practices. I am talking about the VA Home
Loan Program and being exempt from that.
What practices, predatory practices or other consumer
protection issues, could you identify as things that you
couldn't otherwise get to without the exemption from this
administrative process? And, again, I am assuming that is you,
Mr. London.
Mr. London. Yes. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman.
I would say that, you know, from a statutory standpoint, VA has
brought authority to address issues. However, when we have to
make substantive interpretations of the statute, we are subject
to the Administrative Procedure Act, and when there are
emergent issues that have to be addressed, sometimes the APA or
the Administrative Procedure Act can be unduly burdensome. From
my personal experience in my 13 years in VA, on average it has
taken us some 18 to 24 months or sometimes more to issue a
formal rulemaking. And when there is clear, tangible, empirical
evidence that things that need to be addressed and there is an
agreement across all stakeholders to go through that formal
process when there is agreement is sometimes unnecessary.
Mr. Arrington. I am out of time. I am going to ask my
colleagues if they have further comments or questions. Oh, Mr.
Correa, I apologize. We will go back to you, Mr. Correa, and I
yield 5 minutes for questions or comments.
Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to
follow up on some of your comments, which are on the building
trades, the apprenticeship programs.
The President has announced a trillion-dollar
infrastructure project for this country. The State of
California, where I am from, is about to undertake a major
infrastructure from building new roads, highways, so on and so
forth. So I began to see that demand is there for some of these
building trades, the apprenticeship programs. And a lot of the
local bonds that will be used for matching funds with these
programs are actually putting in either local hire or hire a
veteran kind of requirements.
And so listening to our Chairman here, I am very interested
in, you know, making sure that our apprenticeship programs are
working, whether it is state jurisdiction, Federal jurisdiction
or local, I want to make sure that we are working to make sure
that those obstacles are put to the side, make sure that our
veterans are connected to those jobs, those apprenticeship
jobs, so that, you know, as these jobs begin to develop and
they are going to be coming around real fast, that our veterans
have the first shot at those good-paying jobs.
So, you know, I would ask you if there is any duplication,
if there is any update in terms of codes, anything we need to
do to make sure that the veterans are front and center when it
comes to these jobs, that that is what they are going to be,
front and center.
That's more of a question as opposed to a comment. If you
can comment, please, to the panel?
Mr. Kamin. Yes, sir. While I agree 100 percent and we do
praise the Administration's spotlighting this issue, I think
that it can affect the country in ways that are above what we
can possibly measure when we look at this model and this
approach.
And it is interesting to see the way they function now. I
actually trained a Seamen's International Union training
facility in Maryland and it looked to me like a small college
campus where they are going, they are learning nautical
expertise in the classroom, they are getting training on fire
protection, they are hitting the sea and learning stuff there,
and it was so far removed from what the initial perception is
about learning how to use a hammer to hit a nail. In addition
to that, they would leave being able seamen with a salary
starting at $8,000 a month for an average age of 19 to 20 years
old for the people engaged.
What was most striking about that, though, was when I asked
where people were from, the answers I got were Baltimore,
Norfolk, Houston, Baltimore. They were all shipping towns. And
that is where you see that the outreach isn't across the
country, it is with traditional industries and traditional
people living there.
So I don't mean to discount promoting apprenticeship and
the role that can play, GI Bill or not, because it does have
the potential, if properly endorsed by the country, to do great
things.
Mr. Correa. If I may, Mr. Chairman, I want to say that I
still believe that the best thing that we can do for veterans
is to give them a job, and to give them a good-paying, middle
class job is what we need to do. So I think this is one of
those areas that the jobs are going to be begging really fast.
So however we can assist you, whatever legislation you
need, we would love to hear from you. Thank you very much.
Mr. Chair, I yield the remainder of my time.
Mr. Arrington. The gentleman from California yields back.
I would just open it up to my colleagues for any further
questions or comments.
Mr. Rutherford, I yield 5 minutes.
Mr. Rutherford. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Kamin, you explained I thought very well about TAP
being an orientation program. And part of the concern that I
have had with TAP over the years that I have known about it is
the fact that it can happen months before the military
personnel even retires; is that correct?
Mr. Kamin. Yes, sir, that is correct. It is a mandatory
course, but you can schedule it up to----
Mr. Rutherford. Six months?
Mr. Kamin. Six months prior.
Mr. Rutherford. Okay. And that is a long time for that kind
of information, it gets lost, you know. Would you see any value
in moving TAP to, you know, 3 weeks before your departure? And
I don't know what burdens that might place on the military
branches. Do you have any feel for that?
Mr. Kamin. Yes, sir. Well, I can tell you I went through
TAP twice, the first time in 2008, the second time in 2010, and
I believe even by 2010 it was within that 3-week requirement.
Mr. Rutherford. Oh, it was?
Mr. Kamin. Yes. So that is the way it used to be. And the
first time I had just gotten back, redeployed from Iraq, and I
was in no place to be retaining any of that information and it
just felt like a mandatory course.
And I think that is to Mr. Hubbard's point that a lot--that
you could have a pitch-perfect program, but if you don't have
the attention span----
Mr. Rutherford. Right.
Mr. Kamin. --it is not going to count for anything.
So I think you are 100-percent right in terms of finding
the best time for a servicemember to take it that fits their
needs. We have considered is it possible to elect to take a
TAPs course after you get your honorable discharge. If you say
6 months out, oh, geez, my initial thought didn't pan out in
terms of a job, I would really like to go to TAP to learn,
ultimately that presents a lot of complexity, because if I, you
know, ETS out of Quantico and then all of a sudden I am in
Washington State, who is taking care of my TAP? So we do see
issues with that.
I would be remiss if I didn't also mention the Skills
Bridge Initiative that is happening in the Army, which is
actually--and we have to fight with base commanders and with
battalion commanders about this, but the idea of putting a
soldier on TDY orders who is within an 18-month interval of
leaving to get apprenticeship-like training. So Microsoft is a
huge cyber-training program. So if a company, I am talking
about a military Army company, identifies a high-speed soldier
is interested, they can put them on orders to participate in
the Skill Bridge Program. When he Estes, he will have that job
waiting for him at Microsoft.
So those are these innovative, new, very 2015-and-above
approaches that we are still exploring, but there is a lot of
that----
Mr. Rutherford. That is very encouraging. Thank you for
that.
Mr. Hubbard, and I don't want to try to speak for
Congresswoman McSally and I am not really sure on this pre-
apprentice bill exactly what program she is talking about
either, but I do know that in many apprentice programs, in fact
I ran a training center for law enforcement at one time and
there are certain entry requirements like the MAPS test,
Measures of Academic Progress, and TABE, the Test for Adult
Basic Education, and those are prerequisites to get into an
apprentice program.
Now, I also know that those tests come with costs. And then
if you fail a portion of that test, there are remediation's
that are available for the individual, which also some cost
attached to it. And just trying to think about what Member
McSally could be referring to, I can certainly see how being
able to use GI Bill dollars to pay for MAPS testing, TABE
testing, and remediation could certainly be a big benefit,
because you may not be able to get into the apprentice program
without those qualifying tests.
Can you speak to that?
Mr. Hubbard. I can, sir, and thank you for the question.
To start off with, with the research that we did under the
National Veteran Education Success Tracker, or NVEST, we found
some interesting things, specifically as it relates to time to
degree. Individuals were actually preserving their benefit and
oftentimes to ensure that they could use it for, say, a
bachelor's and a master's degree. To do that, what they were
doing is taking classes at community colleges to knock out
their associate's degree early on. I think a model very similar
to that makes more sense for apprenticeships. If this highly
valuable benefit is expended early on, that is time that you
lose on the back end for potentially great programs that might
take a little bit longer.
And so to preserve this benefit for as long as possible
given that it is a finite amount of time, we believe that that
makes more sense.
Mr. Rutherford. Okay. Thank you very much.
And I think particularly in light of, you know, Mr.
Correa's comments about the upcoming, hopefully, transportation
and infrastructure building that is going to be going on, we
certainly need to have folks who are able to get into those
programs as well.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Arrington. The gentleman yields back. And I yield 5
minutes to Mr. Takano for further questions.
Mr. Takano. Of course, Mr. Hubbard, I am interested in how
we can encourage servicemembers to get remediation done before
they separate as a strategy, and that is more what I was trying
to refer to Mr. Rutherford. As far as how we can improve
transition I think is really going back to the moment of
enlistment and assessing the servicemember and assessing their
interests, and being able to set an education plan so that they
are ready on day one of their separation. There is none of this
inefficiency of having to pay for these things out of the GI
Bill.
And what is more is I think we can encourage them to use
tuition assistance in the military. So a very strategic,
focused use of tuition assistance while they are in the
military. They need to be accountable to some educational
goals, because we recruit them based on their educational
goals. That is a huge recruitment tool.
I think that the GI Bill rings hollow when they leave the
military really unprepared to use it well or they use it very
inefficiently. And I am glad to see that so many of our
veterans are strategically saying, well, let's not use up these
benefits right away. And by the way, that takes a lot of
counseling too, to be able to get the veteran to see that.
And, Mr. Arrington, we have been talking so much about the
marketing, the heavy marketing that gets done by some
unscrupulous for-profits and they take advantage of that lack
of sophistication, that lack of market intelligence about how
we consume higher ED, and that I think is going to take a lot
more effort on the front end while they are in service, while
they are active duty. And those are my thoughts.
Mr. Kamin, I am interested in this Microsoft, how long is
that Microsoft program? How much training does it require? And
they are doing this while they are still in service?
Mr. Kamin. Yes, sir. It is their MSC, Microsoft Skills--I'm
sorry, I can get your office the exact program----
Mr. Takano. Yes.
Mr. Kamin. --and I believe it is 6 weeks long. The Skill
Bridge Initiative is authorized for up to 3 months, but they
found out real quick that that is too much time for a company
commander to put their soldier out to learn. So there are
companies that are engaged with this program and that includes
a lot of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, a lot of
shipping companies, and they are just now moving into the cyber
sector, are really trying to tailor the time towards what they
are discovering the military to provide them.
Mr. Takano. And who would pay, who pays for this training?
Does Microsoft pay for the training?
Mr. Kamin. Microsoft would pay for the training and they
would still be collecting their military salary.
Mr. Takano. Is there any way--I mean, this sort of thing I
think is really interesting to explore, because also I think
there may be a role for tuition assistance, you know, there may
be some cost sharing there, right?
I mean, I think it is a legitimate--if it is training, it
is legitimate, but we have to kind of square that with the
military mission as well. But I think we also need to enlarge
this idea of what the military mission is. We are recruiting a
lot more people that need more skills, the military needs
higher cognitive abilities.
So I think we ought to be thinking about how tuition
assistance could be used, how we set those educational goals,
how we get the servicemembers aware of any deficiency in skills
that they need, and get those taken care of. And they should be
held accountable to those goals, like anything else, and by the
time they leave we have less taxpayer money being wasted, we
have, you know, far less--even the suicide stuff I think is
partly driven by this lack of ability to kind of make that
transition, you know, well. But we would need to work I think
more closely with the armed services folks, because that is
where some of the changes need to happen.
Mr. Arrington. Yield back. I appreciate the gentleman from
California's thoughtful comments and his engagement at the
level of detail that you are, it just reminds me of just how
committed you are to this and to serving our veterans.
And I want to commend before we close our colleague Mr.
Rutherford for putting forth a proposal to enhance and expand
the Transition Assistance Program and I think it is a great
piece of legislation. And we are going to have a markup I think
at some point in the near future. I will also remind folks that
we will have a TAP hearing on November the 8th, and so we can
all look forward to that.
I only have one last question and then we will close it
out. On the H.R. 815, where we would eliminate the home loan
cap, how many veterans would benefit if you took--what is the
cap today, the loan limit, and then how many, do we know how
many veterans would benefit today if that cap were removed,
that limit we are taking off?
Mr. London?
Mr. London. Yes. Thank you for that question.
So generally speaking, the cap is $424,100. That represents
92 percent of the counties in the United States. In some cases
like in California and Florida, you can go a little bit higher.
But we ran some data off of the fiscal year that just closed,
2017, and 35,000 veterans received a VA loan above the
conforming loan limit. So essentially those veterans had to put
down 25 percent of the difference of their loan amount and the
limit in their county to enjoy a VA home loan.
Mr. Arrington. And this is an earned benefit and I know it
gives greater exposure to the Federal Government, but we would
look for an offset if we move forward on legislation like this,
correct? I am hearing a yes. I would expect we would have an
offset. But I think it is an earned benefit and I can
appreciate why we wouldn't want to penalize, especially in some
of these markets like the market here in Washington, New York
and other places.
So with that, if there are no further questions or
comments, I just want to thank everybody for being here today
and for their to a very good discussion.
And I want to announce that the Subcommittee is tentatively
scheduled to hold a markup on some or all of these proposed
pieces of legislation on October 25th.
I ask unanimous consent that written statements from
Representative of New York and the Helicopter Association
International be included in the hearing record.
Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Arrington. Finally, I ask unanimous consent that all
Members have five legislative days to revise and extend their
remarks, and include extraneous material on any of the bills
under consideration for this afternoon.
With no objection, so ordered.
This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:21 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
Prepared Statement of Honorable Rutherford
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, fellow members of the
Subcommittee - thank you for the opportunity to speak on behalf of my
legislation, the Veterans Armed for Success Act.
In my district in Northeast Florida and on my time serving on this
Committee, I have heard how companies prefer to hire veterans for many
reasons. They are responsible, responsive, and hard-working. Their
skills translate well into many fields. In short, veterans get the job
done right. Yet, many veterans I have met feel frustrated with their
post-service career opportunities and often do not know how to
translate their learned skills into the job market.
There are few things more important to the quality of life for our
nation's veterans than transitioning into stable, long-term employment.
It creates economically prosperous families; it builds our local
communities; and of extreme importance, it improves the mental health
for many veterans.
In response to these growing needs of veterans and their families
in our area, Operation New Uniform in my home city of Jacksonville was
created. With large Navy, Marine Corps, and Florida Guard installations
in my district, thousands of active duty personnel and 150,000 veterans
call Northeast Florida home.
When you match this population with the huge corporate interest in
Jacksonville, ONU has successfully matched these veterans with
companies looking to hire veterans. Through their skills-based learning
and training, 96% of veterans who have gone through their program have
found meaningful careers within four months of completing the program.
I have spoken at an ONU graduation and seen firsthand how effective
this program is. It has been a huge win for both veterans and Northeast
Florida businesses. While the group has been hugely successful, ONU is
funded through private donations and, unfortunately, they have had to
turn away many veterans who apply for the program because they do not
have enough resources.
When I first met with the group, I was surprised to hear that,
currently, no federal grant program exists for these organizations. In
looking further into the issue, I learned that while the DOD Transition
Assistance Program and efforts at the Department of Labor have worked
to meet veterans' needs, there needs to be supplemental, off base
programs for those who need further assistance in finding employment.
ONU is just one example of the many organizations that VA, DOD, and DOL
can work with more closely to ensure that the programs and resources
our veterans receive are directly leading to long term careers.
My legislation will create a federal grant-matching program to
encourage more organizations to set our veterans up for success, will
shore up our commitment to getting resources to veterans in need of
further assistance, and will also gauge the nationwide needs for
programs like ONU.
In closing, I would like to thank the Chairman, the Ranking Member,
my fellow Congressman from Jacksonville, Al Lawson, for introducing
this bill with me, as well as my colleagues on the Subcommittee and the
Subcommittee staff for their commitment to this and other bills under
consideration today. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Prepared Statement of Rep. Jim Himes
``H.R. 3634, the Securing Electronic Records for Veteran's Ease (SERVE)
Act''
Thank you Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke and
distinguished members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to
testify today on H.R. 3634, the Securing Electronic Records for
Veteran's Ease, or SERVE Act. I would also like to thank my
distinguished colleagues who have cosponsored this legislation
including, Rep. Coffman, Rep. Holmes Norton, Rep. Crowley and Rep.
Esty.
Veterans and their families face real challenges when they
transition to civilian life. We have an important responsibility to do
what we can to help. Finding housing - a roof over their heads - should
not be an ordeal, especially if it is caused by difficulties in showing
the stipend that veterans get from Uncle Sam.
In conversations with student veterans throughout my district,
proof of income for housing kept coming up as a big challenge. Nicholas
Quinzi, a Marine and founder of the Student Veterans Club at Sacred
Heart University, told my office that if he had a wish list of things
to make his veteran experience better, the number one item would be
fixing the lack of verification for the monthly housing stipend.
``I am a full-time student,'' he said. ``I can't really have a
full-time job while taking 5 or 6 classes a semester as well as summer
classes, so my income isn't really `income,' which means there is no
way of procuring a house. Even attempting to rent is a nightmare.''
The fact that Nicholas, and many veterans like him, have no proof
of income that a property management firm could consider when weighing
credit worthiness and income qualifications is silly.
Here's the commonsense fix: H.R. 3634 would require the Department
of Veteran Affairs make documentation of Post 9/11 GI Bill monthly
housing stipend accessible and available online. Student veterans will
use this documentation to provide needed verification to housing
agents, leasing companies, apartment managers, and landlords.
This legislation could have a big effect. Currently there are
approximately 1.1 million students using the Post 9/11 GI Bill. Even if
a fraction of those veterans have had an issue with obtaining housing
because of this issue, that would mean tens of thousands of student
veterans and their beneficiaries that would have one less things to
worry about if this bill were to become law.
I appreciate the VA's attention to this issue, and understand that
they support the intent of the bill but feel that the goals of the
legislation been met with the availability of a statement of benefits.
Unfortunately, the statement of benefits does not solve the problem.
Not all authorized Post 9/11 GI Bill beneficiaries have access to the
statement of benefits on Vets.gov and the statement is not always
accepted as proof of income for receipt of the housing stipend. The
statement of benefits also includes personal data and information that
veterans may not wish to share.
An official form, accessible on the e-benefits portal verifying the
benefit is necessary. This functionality already exists for civil
service preference, commissary and exchange privileges, proof of
service cards and VA compensation and pension benefit verification.
In closing, I would like to thank the subcommittee for its
consideration of the Securing Electronic Records for Veteran's Ease Act
and I look forward to working with the members of the committee to
continue to support our student veterans.
Prepared Statement of Honorable Martha McSally
10.11.17 Testimony re: H.R. 3018, Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
to the HVAC Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
Subcommittee Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and
members of the subcommittee on Economic Opportunity: thank you for
having me here today to speak about an issue of immense importance to
our servicemembers: the transition from service life to civilian life.
Having served in the United States Air Force myself for 26 years, I
know how difficult it can be to navigate the job search as a private
citizen. My bill, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act (H.R.
3018), will ease this process for our outgoing servicemembers by
allowing them to use the education benefits they have already earned to
participate in pre-apprenticeship programs that are proven to increase
the likelihood of gainful employment. At a time when our veterans are
seeing daunting rates of underemployment and our national skills-based
workforce is shrinking, we must find creative solutions to bolster the
resources we are offering our veterans.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that, in 2016, the annual
unemployment rate for post-9/11 veterans was 5.1 percent, compared to
the national average of about 4.6 percent. \1\ Although we have seen
unemployment rates decrease veterans overall since 2011, their rate of
underemployment is actually increasing. In fact, in 2016, more than
27,000 veterans were getting help from grantees - a 23 percent growth
over 2015. \2\ In other words, while more veterans are finding jobs,
they aren't finding the right jobs that allow them to take care of
their families, advance their careers, or find new career paths. Many
veterans today have to work two or even three jobs just to make ends
meet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ BLS, 2016
\2\ Military Times, March 2017
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's worse is that we know that businesses and organizations want
to hire veterans. According to a 2016 report by the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce's Hiring Our Heroes program found that veterans were ranked
third on employers' list for priority recruitment, behind women and
candidates with advanced degrees. But while evidence shows that
businesses across the country want to hire and train veterans, many
cannot attract untrained veterans to their programs due to basic fees
the veterans are unable to pay out of pocket after they return from
service.
Additionally, our nation is facing a growing shortage of qualified
skills-based and trade-based workers. According to a study conducted in
2012, 53 percent of skilled US workers were 45 years or older and 20
percent were over the age of 55. This shortage is even greater for
employees in highly technical fields, like cybersecurity.
It's imperative that we attract a new, younger workforce willing to
apply themselves in these highly technical fields if we hope to remain
competitive in the global economy.
A way to fix this problem is to make it easier for veterans to take
advantage of apprenticeship programs in skills-based fields. In
particular, the Department of Labor has endorsed pre-apprenticeship
programs as a path to helping individuals learn about new careers,
acquire new, trade-based skills, qualify to meet minimum standards for
other federal apprenticeship programs, and get a leg-up on
apprenticeship applications.
However, currently, GI Bill benefits may not be used to supplement
the cost of Department of Labor approved pre-apprenticeship training in
skilled industries. This simply does not make any sense.
The Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act would remedy this issue
by requiring the Department of Veterans Affairs to allow post-9/11 GI
Bill benefits to be used to cover costs of pre-apprenticeship programs
in addition to apprenticeship programs.
This is a common sense step that would provide veterans with
additional resources to acquire new skills, give businesses a cost-
effective path to a younger, willing workforce, and provide a pipeline
of new workers in highly technical fields for the future workforce.
With an increasing number of post-9/11 veterans looking to enter
the workforce and an estimated 453,000 veterans facing unemployment,
now is the perfect time to encourage our warfighters to pursue careers
in high-demand occupations. Expanding job training opportunities for
veterans not only makes sense for our veterans, but is also a win for
businesses.
Again, thank you for allowing me to speak on this important issue
for our veterans and for our national economy. Additionally, I would
like to thank the 13 other cosponsors, many of which are members of
this committee, as well as the various outside groups including: the
National Guard Association of the United States, the Reserve Officers
Association, the Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the
United States, the National Roofing Contractors Association, the
National Association of Home Builders, and the Associated General
Contractors of America for their support.
Prepared Statement of Hon Ro Khanna
``Legislative Hearing on Draft legislation''
Opening
Thank you, Chairman Arrington and Ranking Member
O'Rourke, for holding today's legislative hearing and for inviting me,
along with several of my House colleagues to testify today.
I am Congressman Ro Khanna, and I have the honor of
representing Silicon Valley as part of the Seventeenth Congressional
District of California.
Last week, after a few months of meetings and discussions
with think tanks, companies that offer apprenticeships, veterans
services organizations, the National Association of State Approving
Agencies, and members of this committee, including its leadership, I
introduced H.R. 3949, the Veterans Apprenticeship and Labor Opportunity
Reform, or VALOR, Act.
It is bipartisan legislation that will provide veterans
greater access to apprenticeship training programs following their
service.
I want to thank committee and subcommittee staff from
both sides of the aisle for working with my office in identifying to
the real problem that companies currently face and helping us develop
H.R. 3949 that is targeted, yet important.
I also want to acknowledge the Chairman and Ranking
Member of this Subcommittee for meeting with me and for being original
cosponsors of the VALOR Act.
I'm proud to say that this bill is bicameral in nature,
as Senators Cotton and Tillis have introduced companion legislation in
the US Senate as S. 1936.
Finally, I must thank Joe Westcott, Legislative Director
at the National Association of State Approving Agencies, for taking a
chance on a freshman member of Congress and working with us in
development and endorsement of the VALOR Act. It has been a pleasure to
get to meet and know Joe and to have his support for this legislation.
Legislation Itself
Currently, private employers who offer apprenticeship
programs in more than one state must register with each state approval
agency individually.
This trail of paperwork and burdensome review process
often discourages employers from opening these apprenticeship programs
to veterans.
The VALOR Act would streamline the registration process
for employers, still allow approval agencies to certify programs, and
give veterans more opportunities to gain employment through
apprenticeship programs.
Apprenticeship programs allow veterans to gain skills
needed for 21st century jobs.
Something as simple as paperwork should not stop
employers from hiring veterans.
The VALOR Act would remove administrative hurdles and
offer more apprenticeship to returning veterans.
Closing
I appreciate the opportunity to appear before the
subcommittee today to offer my perspective on this small, but important
bill.
I am happy to answer any questions that my colleagues on
the subcommittee may have.
Prepared Statement of Robert Worley
Good morning, Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke and
Members of the Committee. I am pleased to be here today to provide the
views of the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) on pending
legislation. Due to when we received notice of the hearing, and the
draft bill text on the Administrative Procedures Act (APA), we will
follow up with the Committee as soon as possible on H.R. 815, H.R.
3018, and the APA draft bill. With me today is Jeff London, Director,
Loan Guaranty Service, Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA).
H.R. 3634
H.R. 3634, the ``Securing Electronic Records for Veterans' Ease Act
of 2017,'' or the ``SERVE Act of 2017'' would ensure that individuals
may access documentation verifying the monthly housing stipend paid to
the individuals under the Post-9/11 Educational Assistance Program
(Post-9/11 GI Bill). It would add a new subsection (j) to 38 U.S.C.
Sec. 3313.
VA supports the intent of the proposed legislation, but notes this
change would provide access to the same information currently available
to Veterans through a ``Statement of Benefits'' letter accessible
through the internet at www.Vets.gov. This letter provides a link to
the amount of a Veteran's monthly housing stipend and other eligibility
and entitlement information under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Presently, the
``Statement of Benefits'' letter is only available for Veterans. VA is
in the process of making this letter available to all Post-9/11 GI Bill
beneficiaries. The implementation date for this functionality has not
been determined.
As a technical matter, we note that there is already a subsection
(j) in section 3313.
H.R. 3949
The purpose of H.R. 3949 is to provide for the designation of state
approving agencies for multi-state apprenticeship programs for purposes
of VA's educational assistance programs.
This bill proposes to amend section 3672(c)(1) of title 38, U.S.C.,
to designate the state approving agency (SAA) for the state in which
the headquarters of a multi-state apprenticeship program is located as
the approving agency for this program. The SAA for the state in which
the apprenticeship program takes place would be responsible for all
other purposes.
The term ``multi-State apprenticeship program'' would be defined as
a non-Federal apprenticeship program operating in more than one state
that meets the minimum national program standards developed by DOL.
VA supports the proposed legislation. Currently, non-Federal
apprenticeship programs operating in more than one state must request
approval from the SAA in each state in which it operates. For example,
if an employer has training establishments in 50 states, it must seek
separate approval from the SAA in each. This process can be lengthy and
cumbersome causing some Veterans to miss valuable training
opportunities. The proposed legislation would allow one SAA to approve
a multi-state apprenticeship program. However, VA would recommend that
the phrase ``headquarters of the apprenticeship program'' be further
defined so as to prevent competing claims of jurisdictional authority
from multiple SAAs. In addition, DOL recommends the terms ``non-Federal
apprenticeship program'' and ``minimum national program standards, as
developed by the Department of Labor'' be further defined in the bill.
DOL is available to work with the Subcommittee to clarify those terms.
As a technical matter, we note that this bill would replace
paragraph (c)(1) of section 3672 with new paragraphs (c)(2)(A) and (B).
VA notes that section 3672(c)(2) currently exists in title 38, U.S.C.,
and it is unclear how the proposed amendment would impact that
provision.
H.R. 3965
This bill gives the Secretary authority to make grants to
organizations that would provide employment assistance to recently
transitioned Servicemembers. Recipients of the grant would provide
resume assistance, interview training, job recruitment training, and
related services. We would like to note that these services are
currently provided by Department of Labor (DOL) through a memorandum of
understanding between our departments, and therefore the intent of this
bill might best be accomplished by DOL.
VA does assist eligible Veterans participating in VBA's Vocational
Rehabilitation and Employment program and the Veterans Health
Administration's homelessness and compensated work therapy programs
with these tasks.
The draft bill authorizes $5,000,000 to carry out this section.
Draft Flight School Bill
This draft bill would make certain improvements to the use of
educational assistance provided by VA for flight training programs.
Section 1(a) of the proposed legislation would amend section
3034(d) of title 38, U.S.C., to remove the requirement for an
individual receiving Montgomery GI Bill-Active Duty benefits (or
chapter 30) to possess a valid private pilot certificate before
qualifying to receive benefits for flight training. Therefore,
individuals who do not possess a valid private pilot certificate could
qualify for flight training under chapter 30. This provision would
apply to a quarter, semester, or term that begins on or after the date
of enactment.
Section 1(b) of the proposed legislation would add a new subsection
(k) in section 3313 of title 38, U.S.C., which would allow an
individual receiving Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits to elect to receive
accelerated payments for tuition and fees for flight training pursued
at institutions of higher learning when the flight training is a
requirement for the degree being pursued. The amount of each
accelerated payment would be equal to twice the amount for tuition and
fees, otherwise payable to an individual. The amount of monthly
stipends (i.e., monthly housing allowance, kickers, etc.) would not be
accelerated. Two months of entitlement would be charged for each
accelerated payment. This provision would apply to training that begins
on or after the date of enactment.
Section 1(c) of the proposed bill would amend subsection (c)(1)(A)
of section 3313 of title 38, U.S.C. to limit the benefits paid for
pursuit of flight-related degree programs at public IHLs. First, it
would limit the amount of tuition and fees payable for a program that
requires flight training to the same amount per academic year that
applies to programs at private or foreign IHLs. Second, it would
prohibit the payment of tuition and fees associated with non-required
(i.e., elective) flight training. This provision would apply to a
quarter, semester, or term that begins two years after the date of
enactment, for individuals currently using chapter 33 benefits.
Otherwise, this provision would apply to a quarter, semester or term
that begins on or after the date of enactment.
Section 1(d) of the bill would further amend section
3313(c)(1)(A)(ii)(II) of title 38, U.S.C., as added by subsection
(c)(2)(E) of this bill, to add a new item (cc) that would limit the
amount of tuition and fees payable for certain programs at IHLs,
specifically those that involve a contract or agreement with an entity
(other than another public IHL) to provide a program of education or a
portion of a program of education, to the same amount per academic year
that applies to programs at private or foreign institutions. This
provision would apply to a quarter, semester, or term that begins 2
years after the date of enactment, for individuals currently using
chapter 33 benefits. Otherwise, this provision would apply for a
quarter, semester, or term that begins on or after the date of
enactment.
VA supports the intent of section 1(a). However, VA has concerns
about removing the requirement for individuals to possess a valid
private pilot certificate as this would allow certain individuals to
pursue flight training as an avocation versus a vocation. VA notes that
this provision would also apply to individuals pursuing flight training
under both chapter 30 and chapter 33, since the same approval criteria
govern both education programs.
VA does not support section 1(b). Under this provision, individuals
would exhaust their entitlement prior to completing their program of
education. This would specifically impact individuals who elect to
receive accelerated payments for flight training while pursuing a
standard 4-year bachelor's degree program. In addition, the amount of
an accelerated payment could exceed the actual cost of tuition and fees
charged for any given enrollment period. Consequently, VA could pay
more funding than required for certain enrollments. In addition, the
proposed charge against entitlement is confusing since only payments
associated with tuition and fee charges may be accelerated. These
payments, however, are paid in a lump sum, not on a monthly basis.
This section would require VA to make changes to the current rules
for determining payment amounts that are programmed into the Long Term
Solution (LTS). LTS is not currently programmed to process accelerated
payments. VA estimates that it would require one year from the date of
enactment to make the necessary information technology system changes.
Lastly, VA supports sections 1(c) and 1(d), which are consistent
with our FY18 budget and would limit the amount of tuition and fee
payments for enrollment in flight programs and certain programs at IHLs
that are a part of a contract agreement with other entities (other than
another public IHL). VA is concerned about high tuition and fee
payments for enrollment in degree programs, and especially those
involving flight training at public IHLs. Education benefit payments
for flight programs increased tremendously with the implementation of
Public Law 111-377.
There has been a significant increase in flight training centers,
specifically those that offer helicopter training, that have contracted
with public IHLs to offer flight-related degrees. Sometimes these
programs charge higher prices than those that would be charged if the
student had chosen to attend the vocational flight school for the same
training.
The proposed legislation would remedy this situation. VA would like
to note that information technology (IT) changes would also be
necessary to implement sections 1(c) and (d). VA estimates that it
would require 1 year from enactment to develop, test, and implement
this functionality. Manual processing would be needed in the interim.
This concludes my testimony. We appreciate the opportunity to
present our views on these bills and look forward to answering any
questions the Committee may have.
Prepared Statement of John Kamin
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and distinguished
members of the subcommittee; On behalf of our National Commander,
Denise H. Rohan, and the over 2 million members of The American Legion,
we thank you for this opportunity to testify regarding The American
Legion's positions on pending legislation before this committee.
Established in 1919, and being the largest veteran service organization
in the United States with a myriad of programs supporting veterans, we
appreciate the subcommittee focusing on these critical issues that will
affect veterans and their families.
H.R. 815
To amend title 38, United States Code, to adjust certain limits on
the guaranteed amount of a home loan under the home loan program of the
Department of Veterans Affairs.
VA's Home Loan Guaranty program has been in effect since 1944 and
has afforded over 20 million servicemembers and veterans the
opportunity to purchase homes. The Home Loan programs offer veterans a
centralized, affordable and accessible method of purchasing homes in
return for their service to this nation. The program has been so
successful over past years that not only has the program paid for
itself, but it has also shown a profit. In addition, statistics
released by the Mortgage Bankers Association's National Delinquency
Survey through the years have shown that veterans using VA loans have
the lowest foreclosure rate in the United \1\States \2\. The home loan
program has been a tremendous benefit for the military and veteran
community.
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\1\ https://www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2255
\2\ https://www.blownmortgage.com/va-loans-lowest-foreclosure-rate/
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H.R. 815 would add to this great benefit by allowing the VA
flexibility to determine the appropriate limit of the veteran's loan
for those who choose to buy homes in high-income areas. This would give
a servicemember and/or veteran additional options for finding a home
through a VA-backed loan. This bill is a commonsense approach to
providing a meaningful benefit to those who have honorably served
America. It is the sincere desire of The American Legion to see all
veterans realize the American dream of owning their own home.
Through Resolution No. 329: Support Home Loan Guaranty Program, The
American Legion supports any administrative and/or legislative efforts
that will improve and strengthen the Loan Guaranty Service's ability to
serve America's veterans. \3\
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\3\ The American Legion Resolution No. 329 (2016): Support Home
Loan Guaranty Program.
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The American Legion supports H.R. 815.
H.R. 3018: Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
To amend title 38, United States Code, to ensure that veterans may
attend pre-apprenticeship programs using certain educational assistance
provided by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, and for other purposes.
Currently, GI Bill benefits cannot be used to cover the cost of
Department of Labor approved pre-apprenticeship programs. In certain
industries, many veterans face financial barriers entering into
apprenticeship programs because they lack pre-apprenticeship
credentials and training.
Pre-apprenticeship programs provide instruction and/or training to
increase math, literacy, and other vocational and pre-vocational skills
needed to gain entry into a Registered Apprenticeship program. For
example, the Robert C. Byrd Institute partners with West Virginia Women
Work to offer training to women to prepare for machinist and industrial
apprenticeships. Implementing Registered Apprenticeship and pre-
apprenticeship models that are aligned with the needs of key industry
sectors creates opportunities to advance veterans who are students, job
seekers, or workers along the talent pipeline.
With skilled trade programs expected to grow faster than average as
a growing economy spurs infrastructure development, The American Legion
believes it is important that the Post-9/11 GI Bill incorporate this
training. \4\
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\4\ https://www.bls.gov/ooh/construction-and-extraction/home.htm
Construction and Extraction Occupations, Occupational Outlook Handbook
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The Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act would allow veterans to
use their educational benefits under the GI Bill to attend pre-
apprenticeship programs that are compliant with state standards and
sponsorships with Registered Apprenticeship Programs. Through
Resolution No. 318: Ensuring the Quality of Servicemember and Veteran
Student's Education at Institutions of Higher Education, The American
Legion supports any legislative or administrative proposal that
improves the GI Bill. \5\
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\5\ The American Legion Resolution No. 318 (2016): Ensuring the
Quality of Servicemember and Veteran Student's Education at
Institutions of Higher Education.
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The American Legion supports H.R. 3018.
H.R. 3634: SERVE Act of 2017
To amend title 38, United States Code, to ensure that individuals
may access documentation verifying the monthly housing stipend paid to
the individual under the Post-9/11 Educational Assistance Program of
the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Many veterans utilizing the Post 9/11 GI Bill do not live in
dormitories or on-campus housing but instead, find housing in the local
market. Because many veterans who transfer from the military into
higher education are generally older, have families, or are not
comfortable with the dorm lifestyle, the best option is to rent a home
or apartment on the local market near their institution of higher
learning. Improvements to the GI Bill Comparison Tool have allowed
veterans the ability to make informed decisions by viewing their
estimated basic allowance for housing (BAH) rate in the location they
are contemplating attending school. However, for purposes of income,
the veteran has no official verification of their monthly housing
stipend. This can be burdensome to veterans when having to explain the
specifics of a government benefit to landlords and rental agencies as a
reason they should waive a standard component of a rental application.
H.R. 3634 provides a common sense and zero cost solution that would
allow documentation to be available to veterans online. This
documentation would verify the amount of their monthly housing stipend
the veteran would receive to show proper documentation of benefits.
Through Resolution No. 318: Ensuring the Quality of Servicemember
and Veteran Student's Education at Institutions of Higher Education,
the American Legion supports any legislative or administrative proposal
that improves the GI Bill. \6\
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\6\ The American Legion Resolution No. 318 (2016): Ensuring the
Quality of Servicemember and Veteran Student's Education at
Institutions of Higher Education.
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The American Legion supports H.R. 3634.
Draft Bill
To amend title 38, United States Code, to eliminate the
applicability of certain provisions of the Administrative Procedure Act
to housing and business loan programs of the Department of Veterans
Affairs.
Predatory lending schemes, under the guise of refinancing, have
plagued veterans and their families for quite some time. These schemes,
a painful reminder of the harmful practices seen during the housing
boom, are targeting thousands of veterans and their families
nationwide. Examples of these exploitations involve chronic refinancing
that creates large fees for lenders, but leave veteran homeowners in
dreadful shape financially. Lenders are luring veterans in with lower
monthly payments and ``official looking'' marketing materials
resembling DOD documents. Frequently, veterans end up in negative-
equity positions, owing more on their loan balance than their house is
worth.
A recent analysis found numerous instances where veterans were
influenced to shift from a long-term fixed-interest rate to a lower-
rate short-term adjustable in which the principal amount owed to the
lender jumped by thousands of dollars. \7\ In an average refinancing of
this type, veterans added $12,000 of debt to reduce their monthly
payment by $165, which could result in negative equity. \8\
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\7\ https://www.washingtonpost.com/realestate/agency-warns-that-
questionable-refinancings-may-be-costing-veterans-big-money/2017/09/25/
00955ff4-a208-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14--story.html?utm--
term=.6090a1903d3c
\8\ Id.
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The Administrative Procedure Act (APA) governs the process by which
federal agencies develop and issue regulations. The APA exempts most
loan programs from the formal rule making provisions, which includes
requirements for publishing notices of proposed and final rulemaking in
the Federal Register, and provides opportunities for the public to
comment on notices of proposed rulemaking. The APA requires most rules
to have a 30-day delayed effective date. In addition to setting forth
rulemaking procedures, the APA addresses other agency actions such as
issuance of policy statements, licenses, and permits. It also provides
standards for judicial review if a person has been adversely affected
or aggrieved by an agency action.
Title 38, U.S.C. requires the Secretary of VA to issue official
regulations related to the home loan program, which gives the VA less
flexibility. For instance, the VA home loan program is unable to react
swiftly enough to predatory refinancing practices because VA must issue
formal regulations each time. This draft bill would allow the home loan
program to create changes without rulemaking, fixing the current law to
provide the Secretary of VA a greater flexibility to avoid issuing
regulations related to home loans.
The goal of enacting this bill would be to ensure that
servicemembers and veterans have the proper protections from predatory
lending schemes. The American Legion believes this bill would take a
positive step towards limiting this kind of scheme that is affecting
too many of our nation's heroes.
Through Resolution No. 329: Support Home Loan Guaranty Program, The
American Legion supports any administrative and/or legislative efforts
that will improve and strengthen the Loan Guaranty Service's ability to
serve America's veterans. \9\
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\9\ The American Legion Resolution No. 329 (2016): Support Home
Loan Guaranty Program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Legion supports this draft bill.
Draft Bill
To amend title 38, United States Code, to provide for the
designation of State approving agencies for multi-State apprenticeship
programs for purposes of the educational assistance programs of the
Department of Veterans Affairs.
The Post-9/11 GI Bill offers living stipends to nonstudents who
seek on-the-job training (OJT) or apprenticeships. Their inclusion
dates back to the original GI Bill, where over 2 million World War II
veterans utilized this benefit for on-the-job and on-the-farm training.
Comparatively, the Post-9/11 GI Bill has only had 27,000 veterans, or
about 2% according to a 2015 GAO report \10\. The report recommended
that VA improve outreach, ease administrative challenges, and establish
outcome measures for its OJT and apprenticeship program. \11\
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\10\ United States, Government Accountability Office. ``Increasing
Outreach and Measuring Outcomes Would Improve the Post-9/11 GI Bill On-
the-Job Training and Apprenticeship Programs'' [GAO-16-51]
\11\ Id.
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The American Legion agrees with the GAO's recommendations, but
advises that administrative challenges must be eased before outreach
and outcome measures can be conducted. No amount of marketing or
salesmanship can make up for a flawed program, and initial feedback
suggests that reforms are needed.
The American Legion believes it is irresponsible for the Department
of Veterans Affairs to focus on outreach and outcome measures of the GI
Bill for apprenticeships while these concerns remain unaddressed.
Promoting a flawed program has the potential to poison the good will
that our nation's employers have for servicemembers and veterans,
accomplishing the exact opposite of the VA's mission to honor America's
veterans.
This draft bill is an important first step to addressing the
problems with Post-9/11 GI Bill Apprenticeship program, by streamlining
approval for organizations with multi-state apprenticeship programs.
Under current law, Registered Apprenticeship programs must be approved
by all of the State Approving Agencies they are operating in order to
be deemed eligible for GI bill use. This extra step in the process
clouds the use of these funds for Registered Apprenticeship programs.
Companies operating in several states can be vulnerable to these
different interpretations, adding opportunity costs, and financial
uncertainty. Through designating the state approving agency in which
the headquarters of the apprenticeship program is located the authority
for approving all state locations, this effort can be streamlined.
Through Resolution No. 318: Ensuring the Quality of Servicemember
and Veteran Student's Education at Institutions of Higher Education,
the American Legion supports any legislative or administrative proposal
that improves the GI Bill. \12\
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\12\ The American Legion Resolution No. 318 (2016): Ensuring the
Quality of Servicemember and Veteran Student's Education at
Institutions of Higher Education.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The American Legion supports this draft bill.
Draft Bill
To amend title 38, United States Code, to make certain improvements
to the use of educational assistance provided by the Department of
Veterans Affairs for flight training programs.
The American Legion supports measures to improve cost control for
flight programs offered by colleges and universities. In 2015, The Los
Angeles Times exposed that some institutions of higher learning had
instituted extreme costs for flight fees as there are presently no caps
in place for public schools. \13\ Since that time, increased oversight
from the Department of Veterans Affairs and State Approving Agencies
(SAAs) has resulted in lowered overall expenditures for flight training
to $48.4 million in 2016, from a height of $79.8 million in 2014.
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\13\ U.S. taxpayers stuck with the tab as helicopter flight schools
exploit GI Bill loophole - March 15, 2015 http://www.latimes.com/
nation/la-me-adv-gibill-20150315-story.html#page=1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Among the external factors responsible for this reduction was a
100% compliance survey conducted by SAAs in 2015 that resulted in 12
suspensions and withdrawals; largely due to violations of the 85-15
rule. However, the mandate to micromanage flight programs is
unsustainable, even as institutions learn to adjust to the requirements
while hedging veteran credit enrollment. For these reasons The American
Legion believes that a solution is still necessary to ensure that the
Post-9/11 GI Bill and the Harry W. Colmery GI Bill remain an honorable
investment of public dollars.
This obligation must be measured with the responsibility that our
nation has to veterans using the Post-9/11 GI Bill who aspire to
careers in aviation. Legislation that caps the maximum GI Bill amount
per year for flight would have the inevitable consequence of
discouraging pursuit of this vocation, with greater debt incurred by
veterans and servicemembers who remain committed.
This draft legislation takes both of these considerations into
account in language that sets a specific cap and provides the option
for veterans to elect to spend remaining months of entitlement to
accelerate payments at a rate of up to twice the amount for tuition and
fees. As a practical example, suppose a veteran enrolls in a flight
program costing $45,700 in tuition and fees. This draft bill would cap
their GI payment at $22,850 (the maximum 2017 amount per private
schools), leaving them to pay for half. The veteran can then elect to
have the GI Bill cover the remainder by accelerating his GI Bill
payments for 12 additional months, covering the full cost of tuition.
This would appear to alleviate concerns for discouraging pursuit of
aviation, while putting the choice in the hands of the veteran for how
to appropriately allocate their GI Bill. The American Legion commends
the Committee for this measured approach, and is encouraged by the cost
savings that have been made at aviation programs.
In order to consider support, The American Legion calls for all
cost-savings projected by this measure to be returned to VA education
programs. Absent this, and with no resolutions addressing the
provisions of the legislation, The American Legion is researching the
material and working with our membership to determine the course of
action which best serves veterans.
The provisions in this bill fall outside the scope of established
resolutions of The American Legion. As a large, grassroots
organization, The American Legion takes positions on legislation based
on resolutions passed by the membership. With no resolutions addressing
the provisions of the legislation, The American Legion is researching
the material and working with our membership to determine the course of
action that best serves veterans.
The American Legion has no current position on this Draft Bill and
will bring this issue to our committee for additional review.
Draft Bill
To authorize the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to make grants to
eligible organization for the provision of transition assistance to
member of the Armed Forces recently separated from active duty service.
The American Legion supports this bill as drafted because it would
bolster the services and programs for transitioning servicemembers that
lead to gainful employment and financial stability. By placing veterans
in suitable employment, the country benefits from increased income tax
revenue and reduced unemployment compensation payments. Having adequate
assistance for transitioning servicemembers is a tremendous value for
both the transitioning veteran and America.
The American Legion recognizes that in spite of the employment
assistance available through already existing resources and platforms,
many veterans still face difficulties transitioning quickly and
successfully to the civilian workforce. In fact, unemployment is
slightly higher among veterans than non-veterans of similar age (25-
34). \14\ A good job is often the difference between a veteran having
feelings of well-being or worthlessness. Depression, which can often be
substantially alleviated by having a good job, is recognized as a
significant contributor to the extraordinary number of suicides, level
of drug use, and instances of aberrant behavior, which tend to
disproportionately affect our veteran population.
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\14\ https://content.govdelivery.com/attachments/USVAVBA/2017/10/
06/file--attachments/892299/BLS--Employment--Data-----September--
2017.pdf
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Furthermore, The American Legion believes that by strengthening
American veterans, we in turn strengthen America. Approximately 250,000
servicemembers leave the military each year. Recently separated service
personnel will seek immediate employment, or increasingly, have chosen
some form of self-employment.
Through Resolution No. 70: Improve Transition Assistance Program,
The American Legion supports helping servicemembers transition to
civilian life and find gainful employment. \15\
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\15\ The American Legion Resolution No. 70 (2016): Improve
Transition Assistance Program.
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The American Legion supports this draft bill.
Conclusion
The American Legion thanks this committee for the opportunity to
explain the position of the over 2 million veteran members of this
organization. For additional information regarding this testimony,
please contact Mr. Larry Lohmann, Assistant Director of the Legislative
Division at The American Legion, at (202) 861-2700 or
[email protected].
Prepared Statement of William Hubbard
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON THE TOPIC OF:
``PENDING LEGISLATION''
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke and Members of the
Committee:
Thank you for inviting Student Veterans of America (SVA) to submit
our testimony on legislation pending before this body. With nearly
1,500 chapters representing over 1.1 million student veterans in
schools across the country, we are pleased to share the perspective of
those directly impacted by the subjects before this committee.
Established in 2008, SVA has grown to become a force and voice for
the interests of veterans in higher education. With a myriad of
programs supporting their success, rigorous research on ways to improve
the landscape, and advocacy throughout the nation, we place the student
veteran at the top of our organizational pyramid. As the future leaders
of this country, fostering the success of veterans in school is
paramount to their preparation for productive and impactful lives.
We will discuss the value and role of apprentice experiences in the
transition process for some service members, the need to address on-
going challenges associated with flight training programs, and the
importance of getting the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) right for
the hundreds of thousands of servicemembers separating from the
military each year.
Our National Veteran Education Success Tracker (NVEST) research
demonstrates that the GI Bill has a high return on investment for
veterans and the country-a program worth ensuring for all generations
to come. \1\ As the most recently transitioned generation of veterans,
student veterans are ambassadors to the all-volunteer force, and
recognize the value of this long-term investment.
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\1\ Cate, C. A., Lyon, J. S., Schmeling, J., & Bogue, B. Y. (2017).
National Veteran Education Success Tracker: A report on the academic
success of student-veterans using the Post-9/11 GI Bill. Washington,
D.C.
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As a higher education organization, our focus is on training and
education; two proposals before this body are outside of our scope of
expertise, and we will reserve comment on each, including H.R. 815, To
amend title 38, United States Code, to adjust certain limits on the
guaranteed amount of a home loan under the home loan program of the
Department of Veterans Affairs, and Draft Bill, To amend title 38,
United States Code, to eliminate the applicability of certain
provisions of the Administrative Procedure Act to housing and business
loan programs of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
H.R. 3018, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
The Post-9/11 GI Bill is primarily used for higher education at two
and four-year programs, typically for associates and bachelor's
degrees. Still, a small percentage of GI Bill dollars since 2008 have
been invested in apprenticeship programs. Though more than half of all
separating servicemembers go to school after exiting the military, a
few transitioning servicemembers take the opportunity to pursue
apprenticeship programs in skilled labor fields, which continue to be a
component of jobs for veterans as they enter civilian life.
This bill, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act, proposes
authorizing veterans to use their GI Bill benefits at participating
pre-apprenticeship programs compliant with state standards and
sponsorships with Registered Apprenticeship Programs under the
Department of Labor (DoL). DoL's Employment and Training Administration
(ETA) defines a pre-apprenticeship as, ``a program or set of strategies
designed to prepare individuals to enter and succeed in a Registered
Apprenticeship program.'' \2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ Department of Labor, https://www.doleta.gov/OA/
preapprentice.cfm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since original introduction of the legislation, unemployment rates
have dropped over 4% to a historic low since 2001, now at 3%, or near
full-employment \3\. While well-intended, SVA opposes this vague
standard, and the overall proposal as such an opportunity does not even
exist for higher education students, such as remedial courses or SAT
and ACT testing. There are multiple reasons for maintaining these
valuable benefits for core training, such as actual apprenticeship and
higher education opportunities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ Department of Labor, Employment Rate, https://www.dol.gov/vets/
newsletter/pdf/September-2017-VETS-Monthly-Employment-Overview.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-requisite requirements are often significantly more affordable,
and using the benefits too soon can be the waste of a valuable earned
commodity. For example, many students choose to take their first
several years of education at a community college to preserve the
benefit for later use. Affording the opportunity to use valuable GI
Bill benefits for pre-requisites reduces the GI Bill to little more
than a housing stipend-the practical use for the benefit in the case of
this proposed legislation.
The data to demonstrate a demand for this change is unclear, and
coupled with the long-term negative effects on the program illustrate
our concerns with this bill. Additionally, the current legislation uses
as a basis of approval, ``the curriculum of the program is approved by
a sponsor and the sponsor certifies to the Secretary that the program
will prepare an individual with skills and competencies needed to
enroll in a registered apprenticeship program.'' \4\ This vague
standard is easily exploitable, with very few government resources
available to enforce quality standards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ H.R. 3018 legislative text, page 2, https://www.congress.gov/
115/bills/hr3018/BILLS-115hr3018ih.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SVA looks forward to working closely with this committee and its
members to develop alternative solutions to address the potential rare
instances where such a proposal may be beneficial.
H.R. 3634, Securing Electronic Records for Veterans' Ease (SERVE) Act
of 2017
For student veterans entering higher education after service, life
can be quite different when compared to the traditional 18-22-year-old
students. More than 40% of student veterans are between the ages of 25-
34, and living in the dorms is not the preferred housing arrangement.
\5\ For those who choose to live outside of campus housing,
demonstrating proof of income is a standard requirement to meet for
most rental options. Unfortunately, many landlords do not recognize the
housing stipend (BAH) as a form of income to be applied to rental
worthiness.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\5\ U.S. Census Bureau. (2015). American Community Survey 1-year
estimates.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This legislation proposes requiring the Department of Veterans
Affairs (VA) to furnish students a statement of income for housing
purposes based on their anticipated BAH payments. This is a common-
sense solution that could easily solve a minor policy oversight that
disproportionately affects student veterans with a tremendous burden.
SVA is in strong support of this legislation.
DRAFT - To amend title 38, United States Code, to make certain
improvements to the use of educational assistance provided by the
Department of Veterans Affairs for flight training programs.
For years, there have been examples of fraud, waste, and abuse
within flight programs taking advantage of GI Bill resources. Former
Chairman of the House Veterans Affairs Committee, Jeff Miller,
perfectly captured the issue in a remark last year as he stated, ``The
GI Bill flight school loophole is so big you could fly a 747 through
it.'' \6\ While some veterans choose to pursue a vocation in flight
programs, these programs continue to operate at levels requiring vastly
more resources than limits on vocational training costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\6\ International Business Times, http://www.ibtimes.com/gi-bill-
flight-school-benefits-could-be-slashed-congress-amid-tuition-loophole-
2294612
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
VA data shows that while the number of students taking flight
training went up by only 171 students, or 9%, between FY2013 and FY2014
the total cost to taxpayers for this program grew by $37 million, or
87%, during this same period. This data also showed in one case VA paid
over $534,000 in tuition and flight payments for one student for one
year. \7\ These costs were never assumed as part of the Post 9/11 GI
Bill and must be examined. One can only attribute such a huge increase
in flight training benefit costs to schools that saw a loophole that
allowed them to increase their training costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\7\ Department of Veterans Affairs, http://www.benefits.va.gov/
GIBILL/docs/job--aids/ComparisonToolData.xlsx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Veterans who desire a career in aviation should be able to achieve
those goals, and not at the expense of the sustainability of the
overall program. VA currently affords a maximum of roughly $13,000 for
vocational flight training programs \8\, yet many programs continue to
exploit the loophole of operating through public and private programs,
thereby undercutting the intent of the law for these programs. Some
programs allege that flight training is more expensive by the inherent
costs of the equipment, yet many examples of programs exist that do not
have skyrocketing costs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\8\ Department of Veterans Affairs, https://www.benefits.va.gov/
GIBILL/resources/benefits--resources/rates/ch33/ch33rates080117.asp
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This legislation closes the flight loophole by redesignating flight
training from public institutions, and SVA supports this change; we
believe the standard cap of approximately $13,000 should be applied as
the limit, in compliance with the intent of congress and the spirit of
the law. It is worth noting that many of these programs cite a national
shortage of pilots as the justification for this training; the shortage
exists within fixed wing aviation (planes), whereas, the vast majority
of these programs are training students in rotor wing (helicopters),
for which there is no shortage of pilots. High cost programs for low
paying jobs is a model that is difficult to support. \9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\9\ New York Times, ``Plenty of Passengers, but Where Are the
Pilots?'', https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/opinion/sunday/plenty-of-
passengers-but-where-are-the-pilots.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
This legislation proposes to compress the rate of benefits, with
two months of benefits being offered for everyone month of use and
seeks to address the claims that these programs have a higher cost.
Despite the intent behind this change, SVA maintains that flight
programs should not receive double the benefits as the most expensive
private schools in the country. While we believe this is an overly
generous proposal, we understand the intent and will support the
committee's efforts to strike a reasonable balance if this bill moves
forward.
For programs that cost more than the cap that the committee is
proposing, SVA recommends that programs consider use of the Yellow
Ribbon Program, just as schools that cost more than the private school
cap of $22,800 do \10\. To say that these resources are not enough to
cover the costs of the program simply indicates that the value of these
programs is questionable at best; programs that are truly valuable will
attract an investment from individuals if they have such enormous
career prospects.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\10\ ibid
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We thank this committee and its members for addressing the long-
overdue challenges of the flight school loophole, and hope to find an
agreement that can close this loophole, preventing further abuse of the
GI Bill.
DRAFT - To authorize the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to make grants
to eligible organizations for the provision of transition
assistance to members of the Armed Forces recently separated from
active duty service.
It is important to understand the population of transitioning
servicemembers as they exit the military. For example, servicemembers
report that the military service experience promoted an interest in
pursuing education. \11\ So, when servicemembers transition out of the
military, it is unsurprising that the majority go to school. Yet, the
Transition Assistance Program (TAP), continues to maintain a heavy
emphasis on employment, and underemphasizes the importance of preparing
veterans for a transition to college. The intention of this legislation
is to provide a grant for services offered to prepare veterans for
employment as a supplement to the TAP training.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\11\ Institute for Veterans and Military Families, Student Veterans
of America, ``Student Veterans: A Valuable Asset to Higher Education'',
https://ivmf.syracuse.edu/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Student-Veterans--
Valuable--9.8.17--NEW.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
With unemployment rates hitting historic lows we believe this
funding would be more valuable if spent, at least in-part, on providing
veterans with college selection services and training. \12\ When a
veteran leaves the military at an average age of 26 years old, it is
unlikely that she or he will return to their high school for guidance
and support. Additionally, since two-thirds of student veterans are
first-generation college students, they do not have the family support
and institutional knowledge about making an informed decision about
college.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\12\ ibid, Department of Labor, Employment Rate
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since a majority of student are in-fact going directly to school,
we propose incorporating relevant services for soon-to-be student
veterans as a component of this legislation. We look forward to working
with this committee in refining this legislation, and providing out
full support in seeing its passage.
DRAFT - To amend title 38, United States Code, to provide for the
designation of State approving agencies for multi-State
apprenticeship programs for purposes of the educational assistance
programs of the Department of Veterans Affairs.
As mentioned, SVA recognizes the use of the Post-9/11 GI Bill for
registered apprenticeship opportunities through DoL. As a small
percentage of veterans seek apprenticeships after separating from the
military, the opportunity often receives very little attention. Many
veterans who served in physically demanding roles while in the military
decide to pursue degrees in higher education, allowing them to enter
the workforce in a field entirely unrelated to their prior military
occupation, but still utilizing their soft skills such as leadership,
mission accomplishment, and adaptability.
Similar to SVA's research on the use of the Post-9/11 GI Bill with
NVEST, it would be prudent to perform similar study of the use and
impact of the apprenticeship opportunities. Without such data, it is
difficult to determine the effectiveness or outcomes of these programs.
Assuming the programs do have reasonably beneficial outcomes, this
legislation is a common-sense solution to allowing companies to work
with the State Approving Agencies (SAA) \13\ of a single state, versus
requiring approval in all 50 states for companies that cross multiple
borders.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\13\ National Association of State Approving Agencies, http://
nasaa-vetseducation.com/About.aspx
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The importance of including the SAAs as an approval authority in
the process of reviewing these programs cannot be overstated. As the
metaphorical watchdogs of the GI Bill, the SAAs provide an important
quality check on all programs approved for use of GI Bill funds.
However, SAAs maintain expertise primarily in higher education, and
maintain reviewers with specific apprenticeship expertise for the staff
of each SAA is worth consideration.
The legislation before this body specifically addresses critical
areas of policy for veterans as it relates to economic opportunity. The
importance of economic opportunity is that it is the key to unlocking
the potential leadership that veterans afford the country. Having been
through rigorous training and tested under demanding conditions,
veterans outperform their civilian peers in many aspects, especially
education. From our NVEST data, we know that by nearly any academic
standard, veterans are succeeding at higher rates than their
traditional peers.
Unfortunately, the story of success for veterans is often left
untold due to the structure of various institutions with the ability to
highlight their success. We are thankful that this committee pays such
particular attention to the importance of economic opportunity policy.
Indeed, tools of economic opportunity fuel successful transitions from
the military to civilian life; these tools afford veterans who earned
the right to go to school the opportunity to excel in higher education;
they provide opportunities to own homes, businesses, and provide a
better life for families.
However, economic opportunity policy is often buried within the
bureaucracy of various entities beyond this body. For example, we have
witnessed the exceptional efforts of many dedicated Americans serving
DoL in the Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS) \14\
office, yet it is unclear as to whether the office is given the
priority it deserves. At VA, discussion of the GI Bill or any other
economic opportunity tool is the last topic on the agenda for any
veteran service organization meeting, if discussed at all; yet over $75
billion has been invested in student veterans through the GI Bill \15\
-not an insignificant amount by any measure.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\14\ DoL VETS, https://www.dol.gov/vets/aboutvets/aboutvets.htm
\15\ Department of Veterans Affairs, Total Expenditures, https://
www.benefits.va.gov/REPORTS/abr/ABR-Education-FY16-03022017.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some veterans face challenges as servicemembers in the military and
through their transition. The challenges that some face, however,
should not be a reason to shy away from the success of millions of
veterans. Thanks to organizations like Got Your 6 \16\, the USO \17\,
Raytheon \18\, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation \19\, the Lumina
Foundation \20\, and dozens of other incredible people, a message of
veteran empowerment is beginning o find its way to the consciousness of
the American public. Government is slow to catch-up, but we believe
this Administration has the power to elevate the importance and
potential of economic opportunity for veterans.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\16\ Got Your 6, https://gotyour6.org/about/who-we-are/
\17\ The USO, https://www.uso.org/about
\18\ Raytheon, http://www.raytheon.com/responsibility/armed-
services/
\19\ Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, https://
www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work
\20\ Lumina Foundation, https://www.luminafoundation.org/our-work
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
We thank the Chairman, Ranking Member, and the Committee members
for your time, attention, and devotion to the cause of veterans in
higher education. As always, we welcome your feedback and questions,
and we look forward to continuing to work with this committee and the
entire congress to ensure the success of all generations of veterans
through education.
Statements For The Record
HELICOPTER ASSOCIATION INTERNATIONAL
Submitted by: Matthew S. Zuccaro
President / CEO
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and Members of the
Subcommittee, Helicopter Association International (HAI) thanks the
subcommittee for holding a hearing on the important issue of
educational assistance provided to veterans for flight training.
HAI unequivocally supports financial assistance to veterans for
flight training programs. With this help, veterans receive the training
necessary to transition to a career in the civilian aviation industry.
From a personal perspective, I know the life changing effect the
Veterans flight training program can have on one's life. Upon my return
from Vietnam as an Army helicopter pilot I utilized the Veterans flight
training program to expand my overall piloting capabilities. That
action had a direct beneficial effect on my 50-year aviation career.
The U.S. civilian general aviation sector generates more than one
million jobs and more than $200 billion for the nation's economy - and
it is seeking pilots. Today's flight training programs prepare
tomorrow's pilots of police and firefighting helicopters, air
ambulances, charter and corporate aircraft, and airliners.
Being a civilian commercial pilot is a rewarding career. However,
it requires thorough, in-depth, and complex training. Learning to fly a
helicopter is even more expensive than fixed-wing training because of
the high costs associated with operating a complex rotorcraft.
HAI believes that that as a nation, we have an obligation to meet
the needs of veterans by keeping the promises made to them, including
providing financial assistance to help them achieve their educational
goals. We applaud the members of the Veterans' Committee for their
efforts to ensure veterans receive the benefits they have earned by
stepping forward in our nation's defense.
HAI's goal is to ensure an outcome that supports veterans in their
transition to the civilian economy while endorsing the creation and
administration of fiscally sound, flexible, and responsive flight
training benefit programs for this deserving group.
HAI supports the need for improved fiscal responsibility by the
government and strongly supports tightening the existing regulations of
the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) to curb recent abuses by a
minority of flight schools affiliated with collegiate degree programs.
We applaud the committee's determination to strike a balance between
providing opportunity for veterans while controlling excessive costs.
HAI also supports congressional efforts to provide greater
flexibility and more efficient funding mechanisms to help veterans
complete their flight training. Long industry experience has
demonstrated that flight training over a shorter time is more
economical and effective for the student pilot than the same amount of
training over an extended period. Consideration of accelerated payments
is one option that allows veterans a more effective and economical path
to flight training.
Caps on payments for flight training tuition and fees unfairly
impact the ability of veterans to pursue well-paying jobs in the
civilian aviation sector. These caps deprive them of the ability to
pursue collegiate flight training, a common path to a career as a
commercial helicopter pilot.
Tools like the Yellow Ribbon Educational Enhancement Program (YRP)
are helpful in offsetting costs that exceed current VA educational
caps. Participating institutions agree to cover a portion of the
difference between the tuition and the amount of VA coverage. The VA
matches the institution's contributions to further reduce or eliminate
the veteran's out-of-pocket expenses.
This program would not be necessary if caps on flight training were
removed. However, with caps in place, YRP can be an effective tool to
extend the resources available to veterans.
Finally, HAI supports allowing VA benefits to be used for veterans
as they train to obtain a private pilot license. Obtaining this
certificate is the required first rung on the ladder to a career as a
commercial pilot. Placing this financial stress solely on our veterans
means fewer and fewer will be able to pursue a commercial helicopter
pilot career.
Requiring veterans to cover the costs associated with their private
pilot license is a discriminatory financial burden that most veterans
can ill afford. Removing this financial impediment would be a positive
step toward providing veterans with the tools they need to transition
to a civilian aviation career.
HAI applauds today's dialogue and discussion. We appreciate the
leadership's willingness to listen to our perspective and consider our
position. HAI remains committed to working with the Veterans' Affairs
Committee and all of Congress to ensure our nation delivers on its
commitment to our veterans who have honorably and unselfishly served
our nation.
H.R. 3108
10.11.17 Testimony re: H.R. 3018, Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
to the HVAC Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
Subcommittee Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and
members of the subcommittee on Economic Opportunity: thank you for
having me here today to speak about an issue of immense importance to
our servicemembers: the transition from service life to civilian life.
Having served in the United States Air Force myself for 26 years, I
know how difficult it can be to navigate the job search as a private
citizen. My bill, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act (H.R.
3018), will ease this process for our outgoing servicemembers by
allowing them to use the education benefits they have already earned to
participate in pre-apprenticeship programs that are proven to increase
the likelihood of gainful employment. At a time when our veterans are
seeing daunting rates of underemployment and our national skills-based
workforce is shrinking, we must find creative solutions to bolster the
resources we are offering our veterans.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics estimates that, in 2016, the annual
unemployment rate for post-9/11 veterans was 5.1 percent, compared to
the national average of about 4.6 percent. \1\ Although we have seen
unemployment rates decrease veterans overall since 2011, their rate of
underemployment is actually increasing. In fact, in 2016, more than
27,000 veterans were getting help from grantees - a 23 percent growth
over 2015. \2\ In other words, while more veterans are finding jobs,
they aren't finding the right jobs that allow them to take care of
their families, advance their careers, or find new career paths. Many
veterans today have to work two or even three jobs just to make ends
meet.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ BLS, 2016
\2\ Military Times, March 2017
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's worse is that we know that businesses and organizations want
to hire veterans. According to a 2016 report by the U.S. Chamber of
Commerce's Hiring Our Heroes program found that veterans were ranked
third on employers' list for priority recruitment, behind women and
candidates with advanced degrees. But while evidence shows that
businesses across the country want to hire and train veterans, many
cannot attract untrained veterans to their programs due to basic fees
the veterans are unable to pay out of pocket after they return from
service.
Additionally, our nation is facing a growing shortage of qualified
skills-based and trade-based workers. According to a study conducted in
2012, 53 percent of skilled US workers were 45 years or older and 20
percent were over the age of 55. This shortage is even greater for
employees in highly technical fields, like cybersecurity.
It's imperative that we attract a new, younger workforce willing to
apply themselves in these highly technical fields if we hope to remain
competitive in the global economy.
A way to fix this problem is to make it easier for veterans to take
advantage of apprenticeship programs in skills-based fields. In
particular, the Department of Labor has endorsed pre-apprenticeship
programs as a path to helping individuals learn about new careers,
acquire new, trade-based skills, qualify to meet minimum standards for
other federal apprenticeship programs, and get a leg-up on
apprenticeship applications.
However, currently, GI Bill benefits may not be used to supplement
the cost of Department of Labor approved pre-apprenticeship training in
skilled industries. This simply does not make any sense.
the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act would remedy this issue
by requiring the Department of Veterans Affairs to allow post-9/11 GI
Bill benefits to be used to cover costs of pre-apprenticeship programs
in addition to apprenticeship programs.
This is a common sense step that would provide veterans with
additional resources to acquire new skills, give businesses a cost-
effective path to a younger, willing workforce, and provide a pipeline
of new workers in highly technical fields for the future workforce.
With an increasing number of post-9/11 veterans looking to enter
the workforce and an estimated 453,000 veterans facing unemployment,
now is the perfect time to encourage our warfighters to pursue careers
in high-demand occupations. Expanding job training opportunities for
veterans not only makes sense for our veterans, but is also a win for
businesses.
Again, thank you for allowing me to speak on this important issue
for our veterans and for our national economy. Additionally, I would
like to thank the 13 other cosponsors, many of which are members of
this committee, as well as the various outside groups including: the
National Guard Association of the United States, the Reserve Officers
Association, the Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the
United States, the National Roofing Contractors Association, the
National Association of Home Builders, and the Associated General
Contractors of America for their support.
ADDENDUM: EXTENDED REMARKS OF REP. JIM HIMES (CT-04)
``H.R. 3634, the Securing Electronic Records for Veterans' Ease
(SERVE) Act''
Thank you Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke for the
opportunity to extend my remarks on H.R. 3634, the Securing Electronic
Records for Veterans' Ease, or SERVE Act.
H.R. 3634 would require the Department of Veteran Affairs make
documentation of Post-9/11 GI Bill monthly housing stipend accessible
and available online. Student veterans will use this documentation to
provide needed verification to housing agents, leasing companies,
apartment managers, and landlords.
During the second panel of the testimony on Wednesday, October
11th, MG (Major General) Robert M. Worley II (Ret.) stated that the VA
supported the intent of the bill, but similar information is currently
available in a recently launched Statement of Benefits letter, which is
printable and accessible through Vets.gov. It was further explained
that the letter provides a link to the amount of a veteran's monthly
housing stipend and other benefits and eligibility information under
the Post-9/11 GI Bill.
The intent of this bill is to provide our veterans with a letter
that can certify that they receive the Post-9/11 GI Bill BAH stipend,
something that a reasonable person would consider to qualify as proof
of income (POI). The statement of benefits available to veterans is
insufficient.
To illustrate this point I submit for the record documents from the
VA's websites -Vets.gov and e-benefits- to include the Statement of
Benefits letter that MG Worley II referenced during his testimony, as
well as a benefit verification letter that provides documentation
verifying disability compensation.
The VA's new Post-9/11 GI Bill Statement of Benefits letter
(Exhibit A.1) contains the veteran's name, date of birth, file number,
eligibility percentage, total months of benefits earned, the number of
months used, the number of months remaining and the date in which the
benefits will expire. This information has no value for a student who
needs proof that they receive a housing stipend. It does not even
clarify if the veteran is currently receiving benefits.
The hyperlink ``find out how much money you can expect to get based
on your eligibility percentage'' takes the veteran to the GI Bill
Comparison tool (Exhibit A.2). This tool is not linked to the veteran
or their individual statement of benefits. In fact, the tool has
multiple, drop- down menus to select military status; GI Bill benefit;
amount of cumulative Post-9/11 active duty service; class preference;
and a search box with input for a zip code, a school, location or
employer to search benefits information not based on or associated
directly with the veteran. Entering the zip code for Washington, D.C.
lists benefits based on the academic institution (Exhibit A.3). The
result says ``You may be eligible for up to: Tuition (annually) 100%
in-state, Housing (monthly) $2312, Books (annually) $1000.'' Though
this is an excellent planning tool to allow veterans to weigh their
options when using their education benefits, it is abysmally lacking in
terms of the VA's testimony before the subcommittee that this
information is similar to what my bill would require.
The VA benefit verification letter (Exhibit B) is easily accessible
through e-benefits and serves as the reference point for Sec. 2 of H.R.
3634 ``(j) Provision of Housing Stipend Payment Information.'' This
letter clearly certifies the amount of money a veteran is receiving and
the purpose of the benefit.
I urge the Chairman, Ranking Member, and distinguished members of
the subcommittee to look at and consider the exhibits submitted.
Veterans need housing. Student veterans and other eligible
beneficiaries need to have suitable proof of income in order to do
this.
Again, I would like to thank the subcommittee for its consideration
of the Securing Electronic Records for Veteran's Ease Act and I
continue to look forward to working with the members of the committee
to continue to support our student veterans.
HONORABLE LEE M. ZELDIN
H.R. 815 Written Testimony
Thank you Mr. Chairman for holding this hearing today. Supporting
our nation's veterans is a responsibility we all share. These brave men
and women repeatedly answered the call to service to ensure the safety
and security of our country and protect our democratic values. Not only
do we owe our veterans gratitude and respect for the sacrifices they
made, we have a duty to provide them with meaningful support to pursue
the American Dream they honorably protected, a cornerstone of which is
home ownership.
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (``VA'') loan program,
originally part of a national effort to move from a wartime economy to
a peacetime economy and assist returning wartime veterans with
readjustment to civilian life, remains one of the most powerful home
loan programs on the market for service members, veterans and military
families today. The greatest single benefit of this program is that
qualified borrowers can purchase a home without having to make a down
payment provided the loan falls within the statutory loan guaranty
limit. This is a tremendous financial advantage. Saving money for a
down payment and building credit can be difficult for service members
and their families who are constantly on the move and are often one
income families. VA guaranteed home loans include significant benefits
that open the doors of home ownership to veterans who might otherwise
be unable to secure financing for such a purchase.
In 2008, the Veterans' Benefits Improvement Act, (Public Law 110-
389), Section 501, increased the VA's maximum loan guaranty amounts.
Under this provision, conforming maximum loan guaranty amounts ranged
from a base of $417,000 to a high-cost-area limit of $625,500 and
enabled veterans more flexibility to choose homes in locations that
were best suited to the needs of their families. Public Law 110-389
expired in 2014, resetting the VA's effective loan guaranty amount to
those established by the Federal Housing Finance Agency (FHFA) -
approximately $424,100 in most parts of the country. Under the current
law, veterans who lack the savings to meet a down payment requirement
for loans outside the parameters of the statutory loan guaranty limits,
but are otherwise financially able to make the mortgage payments and
meet the VA residual income test are barred from purchasing homes that
best meet the needs of their families. The current geographic loan
guaranty limit prevents veterans from purchasing homes that are in the
best interests of their families.
According to the VA, 705,474 loans were guaranteed in FY2016 with
an average loan amount totaling $253,243. In my home district of
Suffolk County, the median sale price of residential real estate ranges
from $365,000 across the district to $1 million or more for homes
located on the eastern end of Long Island.
It is important to note here that VA loans have the lowest
foreclosure rate of any other mortgage type in the United States. The
low foreclosure rate may be largely due in part to the VA's residual
income test requirement and tight property inspection restrictions at
the loan approval phase ensuring that the veteran applicant can meet
mortgage payments and still fulfill other financial obligations. In
addition, the VA offers supplemental servicing assistance and can take
an active role in interceding with the loan servicer on behalf of the
veteran to explore all options to avoid foreclosure in the event a
veteran encounters problems making their monthly mortgage payments. The
inherently disciplined and responsible military culture of the veteran
and the concentration of VA loans in a smaller number of more
experienced and better capitalized lenders may also contribute to the
lower foreclosure rates for VA home loans.
H.R. 815 provides relief for veterans residing in high-cost of
living areas, not only in my district but across the country.
Eliminating the home loan guaranty limits and removing the statutory
index to the loan limits allow veterans the ability to choose homes in
neighborhoods that are best suited to the needs of each individual
family. I urge all members to support this critical piece of
legislation, and I thank Subcommittee Chairman Arrington for his
leadership on this issue.
MORTGAGE BANKERS ASSOCIATION (MBA)
MBA Statement for the Record for ``A legislative hearing on the
following bills: ``H.R. 815; H.R. 3018; H.R. 3634; H.R. 3949; H.R.
3965; a draft bill entitled, ``To amend title 38, United States Code,
to eliminate the applicability of certain provisions of the
Administrative Procedure Act to housing and business loan programs of
the Department of Veterans Affairs''; and a draft bill entitled, ``To
amend title 38, United States Code, to make certain improvements to the
use of educational assistance provided by the Department of Veterans
Affairs for flight training programs.''
The Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) \1\ appreciates the
opportunity to submit this statement for the record regarding the
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity hearing held on October 11, 2017.
MBA commends Chairman Jodey Arrington and Ranking Member Beto O'Rourke
for holding this important hearing to address the vital concern of
veterans' access to mortgage credit. Considering their personal
contributions to defending our country, veterans merit special
consideration with regards to accessing capital. MBA supports
Congressman Lee Zeldin's intent to allow veterans access to larger
loans to help them purchase homes in high-cost areas, however we
believe there are potential unintended consequences that need to be
addressed to ensure the bill does not undermine the safety of the VA
program.
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\1\ The Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) is the national
association representing the real estate finance industry, an industry
that employs more than 280,000 people in virtually every community in
the country. Headquartered in Washington, D.C., the association works
to ensure the continued strength of the nation's residential and
commercial real estate markets; to expand homeownership and extend
access to affordable housing to all Americans. MBA promotes fair and
ethical lending practices and fosters professional excellence among
real estate finance employees through a wide range of educational
programs and a variety of publications. Its membership of over 2,200
companies includes all elements of real estate finance: mortgage
companies, mortgage brokers, commercial banks, thrifts, REITs, Wall
Street conduits, life insurance companies and others in the mortgage
lending field. For additional information, visit MBA's Web site:
www.mortgagebankers.org.
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With rising home prices in the US, the current VA loan program has
not kept pace. The average VA loan amount in 2004 was for $134,230,
which is under the basic entitlement limit. However as of 2015, the
average new loan balance has risen to $238,560. A full 82 percent of VA
loans now exceed the $144,000 basic entitlement. And yet, with a
default rate of 2 percent, veterans are roughly half as likely to
default on their mortgage compared to the population at large, despite
their lower downpayment requirements. With this in mind, addressing the
opportunities and limits for this growing population of home buyers is
a timely and important undertaking. Veterans living in high-cost areas
such as Long Island, California, or the Washington, DC area deserve the
increased access to credit necessary to be competitive in the
marketplace.
However, MBA does have concerns about changing the current policy.
The bill as written could allow some veterans to collect several
investment properties while providing no down payment of their own.
Such higher-risk uses of the VA entitilement could put both veterans
and the VA program at risk. In addition, the bill does does not address
the need for certain servicing changes that are needed in the program
today, and could be exacerbated by the proposed changes in the bill.
Finally, MBA is concerned that 30 days is not adequate time to
implement the policy change. Lenders will need a year to fully update
their systems, processes, technology, and training.
No Borrowing Cap
Currently, the law limits the loan amount a veteran can receive
with the VA guarantee. As it is written, H.R. 815 would eliminate this
borrowing cap, potentially allowing veterans to acquire several homes,
with no investment of their own capital. This incentive could lead to
veterans collecting rental properties under the umbrella of their VA
entitlement. Not only does such a practice go against the original
purpose of the VA-guaranteed loan, but it also poses a risk to the
veterans, the VA loan guaranty program, and the taxpayers that stand
behind it. A downturn in the housing market or in the broader economy
could have a precipitous effect on a veteran borrower's ability to
repay all of his or her mortgages. MBA has no problem with veterans
purchasing a new home with their unused entitlement while retaining
their existing home. However, we are concerned that the bill could be
used to collect multiple investment properties, rather than simply
improving a veteran's purchasing power in a high cost market.
Accumulation of multiple investment properties introduces new risks for
veterans, the VA program, and the taxpayer that should be taken into
account.
MBA urges the Committee to consider provisions that would target
the expanded benefit under this bill to allow veterans to boost their
purchasing power for a primary residence in certain high-cost markets.
MBA would welcome the opportunity to work with the Committee to focus
the bill on its intended purpose.
Servicing Considerations
We also believe that this bill provides an opportunity to authorize
the VA to re-examine the VA loan modification regime and improve it. VA
modifications routinely offer veterans less relief and smaller payment
reductions than other government-guaranteed loan programs. These
challenges will only be compounded if interest rates rise. Allowing the
guarantee to be used to provide loan modification relief-perhaps in a
similar fashion to FHA's partial claim-will help veterans in financial
distress save their homes.
Expansion of VA's suite of loss mitigation options is especially
prudent in light of the proposed changes to the VA loan limits. These
prospective changes will undoubtedly result in more potential taxpayer
exposure through larger guarantees. Developing more efficient loss
mitigation processes will limit these losses and provide benefits to
all veterans who may run into temporary troubles in making their
mortgage payments.
Conclusion
We thank the members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
for their attention to the VA loan program and are especially grateful
to Congressman Zeldin for his leadership on addressing these important
issues through his legislation. MBA recognizes that rising home prices
and high-cost areas necessitate reforms to VA loan limit regulations,
and we stand ready to help the Subcomittee work through these concerns.
We also strongly encourage the Committee to consider amending the bill
to to provide VA with the authority to improve the program's loss
mitigation options. While we acknowlede its laudable intent, H.R. 815
does not yet account for the aforementioned concerns, and we look
forward to addressing these issues from all sides, to protect veteran
borrowers, the program, and the taxpayers that support it.
VETERANS EDUCATION SUCCESS
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke, and Members of the
Subcommittee:
Veterans Education Success (VES) appreciates the opportunity to
share its perspective on the DRAFT legislation before the Subcommittee:
To amend title 38, United States Code, to make certain improvements to
the use of educational assistance provided by the Department of
Veterans Affairs for flight training programs.
VES is a non-profit organization focused on protecting the
integrity and promise of the GI Bill and other federal educational
programs for veterans and servicemembers.
The purpose of the Post 9/11 GI Bill is to aid service members and
veterans in the transition from military service into the civilian
workforce. Since its inception, thousands of military-connected
students have had the opportunity to take advantage of this generous
benefit in hopes of increasing their economic mobility and the
socioeconomic standing of their families. Unfortunately, some schools
have also taken advantage of veterans benefits in a way that is less
than admirable. This has been the case for certain flight schools,
which is why Veterans Education Success supports the intent of this
bill.
With the overall amount of GI Bill money going to flight school
training dropping from $79.8 million in 2014 to $48.4 million in 2016,
it is evident that VA has made commendable progress in tightening the
oversight and execution of reimbursement of costs to flight training
schools for enrolled veterans. While this work by VA is commendable, we
believe this type of oversight uses valuable resources that would be
better focused in other areas. Similar to the annual tuition and fees
cap for private institutions of higher learning (IHL), the cap
recommended in this bill offers an amenable solution, especially if
schools opt to participate in the Yellow Ribbon Program.
According to data provided by VA, the average tuition for veterans
attending 86 of the 102 schools that received GI Bill money for flight
training in 2016 was below the $22,800 proposed cap (the 2017/18
national maximum for private schools). For 7 of the 16 remaining
schools, the cost was slightly above the cap. With this proposed bill,
should these schools choose to match half of the tuition gap by
participating in the Yellow Ribbon program, VA would match the other
half and veterans would be able to successfully complete their training
without needing to take on additional student loan debt.
Despite the large number of institutions who provide flight
training at costs around $22,800 per student per year, in FY16 the VA
reported a number of schools charging $130,000, on average. While
representatives from these schools argue this type of training is
costly due to high-end equipment, the cost for similar training at 61%
of the schools who accepted GI Bill benefits was significantly lower.
This is concerning at best. To continue to pay these schools at such
high costs is not an appropriate use of tax payer money.
While Veterans Education Success supports the intent of the bill
and a cap similar to that already in existence for private IHLs, we are
concerned about the proposal to offer accelerated payments for those
choosing to attend these schools. Accelerated payments burn through a
student's benefits leaving them without the opportunity to finish a
college degree. Given the availability of the Yellow Ribbon Program,
VES does not believe that accelerated payments are a necessary solution
to covering the extraneous costs of certain flight training programs.
We appreciate the amount of time, effort, and attention the
Committee has given to ensure military-connected students receive
optimal training and education for a successful career in the civilian
workforce. Thank you for considering the views of VES on this important
topic.
VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS OF THE UNITED STATES (VFW)
BY: CARLOS FUENTES, DIRECTOR
NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE SERVICE
``H.R. 3965 and draft bill entitled, ``To amend title 38, United States
Code, to make certain improvements to the use of educational assistance
provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs for flight training
programs''
Chairman Arrington, Ranking Member O'Rourke and members of the
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign
Wars (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the opportunity to present
our views on legislation pending before the subcommittee.
H.R. 3965, Veterans Armed For Success Act
The VFW has serious concerns with this legislation, which would
authorize VA to provide grants to organizations who assist veterans
with resume assistance, interview training, and job recruitment
training, and related services to assist veterans in obtaining
employment.
The VFW has a strong working relationship with VA and the
Department of Labor Veterans Employment Service (DOL-VETS). While VA
administers several programs to ensure veterans have successful and
meaningful careers after leaving military service, the VFW believes
that direct employment services should continue to be administered by
DOL-VETS. That is why we are concerned that this bill would require VA
to administer a new program rather than build on existing programs
administered by DOL-VETS.
Furthermore, the VFW believes that this legislation would duplicate
and impede efforts by DOL-VETS to assist recently discharged veterans
obtain employment through its Jobs for Veterans State Grant (JVSG)
program. Organizations that would like to assist veterans in obtaining
meaningful post-military careers should visit a local American Jobs
Center and partner with a Disabled Veterans' Outreach Program (DVOP)
specialist or a Veterans' Employment Representative (LVER). Through the
JVSG program, DVOPs and LVERs across the country work to connect
employers seeking to hire veterans and veterans qualified to fill such
positions. This includes providing the same services required by this
legislation, but also ensure veterans are connected with permanent
jobs, which this legislation would not do.
Instead this legislation would authorize organizations who receive
grants to define what constitutes ``careers''. The VFW is concerned
that allowing grant recipients to define what is a successful outcome
would enable organization who receive grants to provide subpar services
which fail to help veterans obtain meaningful careers. In fact, DOL-
VETS ended a similar program called Veterans Workforce Investment
Program because grantees were given large grants to help disabled
veterans obtain employment, but were unable to meet objectives or
delivered negligible outcomes. The VFW urges the subcommittee to
improve DOL-VETS JVSG program instead of repeating past mistakes.
Draft Legislation to Use Educational Assistance Provided by the
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) for Flight Training Programs
The VFW supports this legislation, which would place a cap on the
amount of tuition and fees that may be paid under the Post-9/11 GI Bill
for programs of education in which a public institution of higher
education enters into an agreement with a private entity to provide
such education. However, the VFW would like to suggest a recommendation
to improve this legislation.
Currently, third party training programs that contract with public
schools are able to charge unlimited fees since public schools have no
set dollar amount cap. The law states only that the Post-9/11 GI Bill
covers the actual cost of in-state tuition and fees. In the past couple
years, it has come to light that some contracted flight training
programs have charged exorbitant fees, which far exceeded the cost of
an average in-state education, to profit from exploitation of this
loophole. The VFW believes this loophole must be closed by placing a
reasonable cap on these flight training programs.
Still, we believe that veterans should have a path to receive the
training necessary to enter highly technical, high demand fields like
aviation, which offer good paying jobs to those who are qualified. We
also recognize that it may not be realistic for certain flight schools
to provide that training within a $22,805.34 cap per academic year. To
mitigate this concern, this legislation would authorize VA to provide
accelerated payments of twice the monthly entailment amount for tuition
and fees. Doing so would enable predatory institutions to continue to
gouge VA and force veterans to forgo eligibility months simply because
the cap for such programs is not sufficient.
For this reason, we urge the Subcommittee to authorize VA to
determine what reasonable caps should be for flight training and
similarly contracted training in other high demand fields, so that
veterans can continue to have access to these kinds of programs, but
ensure such programs offer transparency in their fee schedules and
cannot simply charge the government an arbitrary rate. To ensure VA
does not set unreasonable caps on contracted programs, the VFW
recommends requiring VA to seek congressional approval before proposed
caps are implemented.
The VFW also continues to support strict enforcement of standing VA
policies, which ensures that third party contractors and their partner
schools are charging appropriate fees, while continuing to offer high
quality training to veterans.